Author Topic: First Ship In a While  (Read 473 times)

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Offline BasileusMaximos (OP)

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First Ship In a While
« on: May 20, 2020, 12:35:06 AM »
I haven't played Aurora for a while on account of waiting for C# to jump back in. So my first proper military ship will be a bit of a disaster I reckon. Here it is, rip it apart.

Ivy class Frigate      9,999 tons       313 Crew       2,533.1 BP       TCS 200    TH 350    EM 0
5000 km/s      Armour 3-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 68      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 66.56
Maint Life 2.82 Years     MSP 950    AFR 139%    IFR 1.9%    1YR 174    5YR 2,606    Max Repair 437.5 MSP
Magazine 252   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce Intergalactic Ion Drive M.HS20 EP500.00 (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 200%    Signature 175.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 9 billion km (20 days at full power)

Ares Macrotechnology 25.00cm C4 Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 320,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 16-4     RM 40,000 km    ROF 20       
BEA Systems, Inc Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (4x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Wuxing Incorporated Beam Fire Control R320-TS5000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Wuxing Incorporated Point Defense Fire Control R40-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 40,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Saeder-Krupp Heavy Industries Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor R17-PB20 (1)     Total Power Output 17    Exp 10%

Size 6.00 Missile Launcher (60.0% Reduction) ( 8 )     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 95
Renraku Computer Systems Intermediat Missile Fire Control FC104-R80 (70%) (1)     Range 104.5m km    Resolution 80
Gladius Anti-Ship Missile (26)    Speed: 18,733 km/s    End: 139.8m     Range: 157.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 99/59/29

International Electronics Corporation Capital Search Sensor AS104-R80 (70%) (1)     GPS 13440     Range 104.5m km    Resolution 80
International Electronics Corporation Point Search Sensor AS24-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 168     Range 24.3m km    MCR 2.2m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon Technologies EM Sensor EM1.0-11.0 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Raytheon Technologies Thermal Sensor TH1.0-11.0 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

PS: It frustrates me to no end how my ship is 1 ton away from being a nice, round number...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 12:56:05 AM by BasileusMaximos »
 

Online QuakeIV

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2020, 01:14:47 AM »
Its definitely more of a garrisoning force, insofar as it has very limtied range/deployment and kindof low maint life.

Thats probably fine if its just meant as a holding force for sol or something.  Going to be a bear to keep them fuelled though if you have to keep sortying out.  I strongly suggest combining the two engines into one for fuel economy, even if its riskier.

Hard for me to comment on combat effectiveness at this point, missiles are decent design.  Notably you don't particularly need to aim for square damage values on missiles any more due to shock damage.
 

Offline BasileusMaximos (OP)

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2020, 01:21:41 AM »
Its definitely more of a garrisoning force, insofar as it has very limtied range/deployment and kindof low maint life.

Thats probably fine if its just meant as a holding force for sol or something.  Going to be a bear to keep them fuelled though if you have to keep sortying out.  I strongly suggest combining the two engines into one for fuel economy, even if its riskier.

Hard for me to comment on combat effectiveness at this point, missiles are decent design.  Notably you don't particularly need to aim for square damage values on missiles any more due to shock damage.

Do you think I made the engines too inefficient? I was debating that myself. Seems just 100% efficiency is the way to go for mil engines unless they're for fighters.
 

Online QuakeIV

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2020, 01:29:01 AM »
Its all subjective, if you want to close with that spinal and engage you will want a bunch of speed.  Bigger = always more effecient however.
 

Offline BasileusMaximos (OP)

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2020, 02:16:34 AM »
Is the ship too 'split' between being a beam ships and a missile ship? I went with a single spinal-mounted beam since A) Its cool and B) I thought they would be more efficient at giving my ship a close-ranged punch than a couple non-spinal mounted beams.

And what is a good beam PD weapon? Gauss, lasers, or railguns? Never was able to parse what their strengths and weaknesses were in that regard. I would assume lasers are the strongest PD but then everyone would use them and I see a lot more people use turreted rail-guns. Personally, I thought Gauss turrets WERE PD railguns but evidently not.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 02:23:16 AM by BasileusMaximos »
 

Online Ulzgoroth

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2020, 02:43:41 AM »
And what is a good beam PD weapon? Gauss, lasers, or railguns? Never was able to parse what their strengths and weaknesses were in that regard. I would assume lasers are the strongest PD but then everyone would use them and I see a lot more people use turreted rail-guns. Personally, I thought Gauss turrets WERE PD railguns but evidently not.
Gauss by miles, for the most part.

Railguns fire 4 shots, which is good, but I believe they can't be turreted, which is bad. I gather they've got some merit in the early game (when Gauss ROF isn't researched yet), or if one has a self-imposed Gauss turret ban.

Lasers are great beam weapons, but poor PD. They only fire single shots. A long range one is probably the best prospect of making a functional area-defense PD beam, but that likely still won't work very well. If you're going to put fast-tracking lasers on your ship for other reasons they might as well contribute to point defense, but if you're picking a weapon for PD lasers are definitely not the best option.

Gauss is the best. It takes no power, fires multiple shots (up to 4 with enough tech), and can be turreted. It only does a single point of damage and has next to no range, but for final defensive fire point defense neither of those drawbacks matters at all.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2020, 02:58:29 AM »
And what is a good beam PD weapon? Gauss, lasers, or railguns? Never was able to parse what their strengths and weaknesses were in that regard. I would assume lasers are the strongest PD but then everyone would use them and I see a lot more people use turreted rail-guns. Personally, I thought Gauss turrets WERE PD railguns but evidently not.
Gauss by miles, for the most part.

Railguns fire 4 shots, which is good, but I believe they can't be turreted, which is bad. I gather they've got some merit in the early game (when Gauss ROF isn't researched yet), or if one has a self-imposed Gauss turret ban.

Lasers are great beam weapons, but poor PD. They only fire single shots. A long range one is probably the best prospect of making a functional area-defense PD beam, but that likely still won't work very well. If you're going to put fast-tracking lasers on your ship for other reasons they might as well contribute to point defense, but if you're picking a weapon for PD lasers are definitely not the best option.

Gauss is the best. It takes no power, fires multiple shots (up to 4 with enough tech), and can be turreted. It only does a single point of damage and has next to no range, but for final defensive fire point defense neither of those drawbacks matters at all.

Both rail-guns and lasers are decent point-defence weapons throughout the game. Just becasue they are not the best does not mean they are not decently good at that job.

Gauss weapons will need considerable research effort to become good and sometimes just continue using lasers or railguns are prefereable. Both lasers and rail-guns used as PD also a re much more useful in beam combat as secondary weapons in addition to their PD role.

So no... neither laser nor rail-guns are bad as point-defence in any way.
 

Offline vorpal+5

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2020, 05:13:29 AM »
From limited experience I would say the ship tries to do too many things at once. Beam, missile and some detection. So a jack of all trade, master of none.
 

Offline froggiest1982

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2020, 05:22:57 AM »
It's a very short range so it is only for colonial defence and within system of creation.

As everything is subjective regarding how to design a ship I would just say that the armour needs probably some extra layers if you still have the tonnage to spare otherwise get rid of a couple of systems (maybe add a ship to work in pair providing the sensor support or add some sensor stations near the planet where it is stationed) and bulk up the hull.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 05:24:58 AM by froggiest1982 »
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2020, 07:12:15 AM »
Is the ship too 'split' between being a beam ships and a missile ship? I went with a single spinal-mounted beam since A) Its cool and B) I thought they would be more efficient at giving my ship a close-ranged punch than a couple non-spinal mounted beams.

It is very effective to have some beam weapons on all your ships if you design them around that concept... but you need a bit more armour generally.

If you have a squadron and you have one really good beam ship in that group the enemy can focus on that one in a beam conflict... if you have some guns on every ship you have allot more depth in the defence and that is worth allot of inefficiency in less weapons overall and some loss in armour etc...
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2020, 08:57:07 AM »
...
Gauss is the best. It takes no power, fires multiple shots (up to 4 with enough tech), and can be turreted. It only does a single point of damage and has next to no range, but for final defensive fire point defense neither of those drawbacks matters at all.

Gauss ROF tech doesn't stop at 4. I have 5 shot gausses now and soon I'll get 6 shot ones. It certainly a pricey tech but the safety they provide is priceless.

To OP:
Ship is fine as a system patrol but I'd like more specialist approach. I got that you are not tech advanced right now but again this ship tries to be very generalist which is usually pairs better with tech advanced empires.
 

Offline Neophyte

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2020, 09:45:32 AM »
It's not optimal to have more than one type of weapon on a design (ie pure ASM, AMM, ASbeam, or beam PD) but I usually have at least a backup beam weapon on missile ships just for RP reasons and if I run out of missiles and somehow am fighting slower ships.  If I want to primarily kill ships with beams I make that the only design choice (eg a very fast ship with many beams, maybe with more armor to survive getting into range).  But again a lot is down to meta/rp (and how much space you can spare, larger ships being more amenable to this sort of thing).

In your case if this ship will be in small fleets I'd drop the turrets, PD really needs to be massed to be effective (early on especially) so specialized PD escort ships in the fleet would be better.  If they're going to travel in large packs then you could drop the spinal laser instead & add more turrets and it might work out okay.

Your missiles are 150% longer ranged than your MFC and sensor, which might be a bit much.  You could probably reduce the Gladius's range some and make it faster and/or more powerful.  Missiles with longer range than your MFC & sensors are needed if the enemy is running away from you and so the missiles might have to travel a slightly greater distance to the enemy than after they were first fired (but the enemy would still stay within MFC and sensor range of your presumably pursuing ship until they hit).  You also can avoid all that by firing at approaching enemies (most of them in my experience) or just waiting a bit & not firing at max ranges.

I'd also use reduce the ASM launcher sizes even more and add more launchers to the ship.  The longer reload times are much less important than salvo size for overwhelming PD. 

Consider how many salvos you'd need to kill an enemy ship for the magazine space since ordnance transfers are no longer instantaneous.  Colliers take too much time to transfer in battle.  Generally unless you're mixing missile sizes "leftover" partial salvos are wasted magazine space, but sometimes it's hard to get them perfectly sized, but try to keep it even if you can.  I like anywhere from 5-10 salvos, even more if my missiles suck compared to the enemy.  But more launchers are always better too, it's a real tradeoff.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 10:15:52 AM by Neophyte »
 

Online Ulzgoroth

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 10:49:35 AM »
Both rail-guns and lasers are decent point-defence weapons throughout the game. Just becasue they are not the best does not mean they are not decently good at that job.

Gauss weapons will need considerable research effort to become good and sometimes just continue using lasers or railguns are prefereable. Both lasers and rail-guns used as PD also a re much more useful in beam combat as secondary weapons in addition to their PD role.

So no... neither laser nor rail-guns are bad as point-defence in any way.
ROF2 Gauss guns, which are the most primitive you can build, are already superior to 10cm lasers for point defense ton for ton. (Same shots per weapon-ton, zero power draw, and the ability to build compact versions. And you get a 5-second cycle time without needing to research capacitor 3.)

I suppose it should be noted that they're a a fair bit more expensive per ton than 10cm IR lasers, if that's a concern.

Vs. rail guns it's more a question of how big a problem not being able to make turrets for your defenses is. Which is approximately the ratio of your ship speed to enemy missile speed. I don't know exactly what you should expect for that, but 4+ seems likely to me unless the rail guns are fighter-mounted.
 

Offline BasileusMaximos (OP)

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2020, 11:08:31 AM »
It's not optimal to have more than one type of weapon on a design (ie pure ASM, AMM, ASbeam, or beam PD) but I usually have at least a backup beam weapon on missile ships just for RP reasons and if I run out of missiles and somehow am fighting slower ships.  If I want to primarily kill ships with beams I make that the only design choice (eg a very fast ship with many beams, maybe with more armor to survive getting into range).  But again a lot is down to meta/rp (and how much space you can spare, larger ships being more amenable to this sort of thing).


This is why I like spinal mounts. I plan to make missiles the main killing power of my ships, but I still want them to have beam weapons as backup and spinal beams seems like the best way to get bang for your buck. That and it reminds me of the ships from Halo which I really like.
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: First Ship In a While
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 11:28:03 AM »
Actually as you may know, spinal and advanced spinals are just one and two laser techs above of your current level respectively. They can always be achieved with more tech and proabably at higher rate of fire. Also you get to put only one spinal mount of the same type.

Keeping that in mind, if you plan/like to put one beam weapon to your ship that seems the best option especially if you're lacking tech wise at the begining. But, speaking of efficiency, I like to put higher rate of fire lasers and bunch of them to my ships. That being said I use spinals along with normal size higher ROF lasers on some of my destroyers and cruisers because it's so cool and RP. One of my spinals is called Melter and yeah every 30 seconds it melts. :)

Actually I had a good experience fiddling with a couple cruisers combat test. I really like them both, they are nearly identical except weapon sets. One of them called Radioactive, uses melter and other lasers I mentioned. The other is Cherry and wields two particle lances along with 4 particle beams, a sniper basically. Both have 600k range on FCs. Although Radioactive is deadly, it rarely has anything to shoot at because of Cherry. Cherry just erases ships.

For flexibility, I think lasers are the way to go as they can have multiple roles with high efficiency barring spinals. Because spinals feel like a bit slow and lacks the normal laser flexibility and either suitable to get the upper hand with packing a punch at low tech or they are a good looking luxury when you have enough tech.
 

 

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