Do you class by Weight or by Role?

[Lord Solar]

From what I know of NPRs: ~7. 5k tons: DD
~15k tons: Cruiser
~25k tons+: Capital (including Battlecruisers)
And they might have a specialization in the class, like "jump cruiser" for a cruiser with a jump drive.
What I use:
10k tons or less: Corvette
10k-20k: Frigate
20k-30k: Destroyer
30k tons+: Cruiser
And I have yet to figure out how big stuff like BBs will be.
And most of them are specialized, eg "Missile Frigate"
Carriers can be any tonnage, and their specialization is based off of size/role, eg a 15k ton Escort Carrier.

[Garfunkel]

I generally use both. Luckily we have plenty of different designations available so mixing is easy.

[Cobaia]

Hello,

I use two systems first I organize my ships by displacement interval:

Class	Displacement
Sub Orbit Support	< 100t
Figther	< 500t
Small Craft	< 2 000t
Corvette	< 3 000t
Frigate	< 5 000t
Destroyer	< 9 500t
Cruiser	< 18 000t
Heavy Cruiser	< 25 000
Battlecruiser	< 30 000t
Battleship/Carrier	< 50 000t

After that I use designations assigned to the role of the ship:

[class-name]-L : Command Ship
[class-name]-E : Escort
[class-name]-G : Missile
[class-name]-S : Gun boat
[class-name]-V : Carrier


My logic Hull + Role.
Example:
Knifelover-L (Command Destroyer)
Knifelover-G (Missile Destroyer)
Knifelover-E (Escort Destroyer)

They have all the same displacement but different roles.Normally I can use the same shipyard, except for capital ship variants, that normally fails to be in the same range.

[Jorgen_CAB]

My ships tend to be classified depending on both role and displacement and it also as other said will depend on where in a campaign I'm at.

An early destroyer might be 8kt while a later one are 16kt. But the role of the destroyer really never change but the size will. Older destroyers that are still around might be displaced to frigate status as they usually have a similar enough role and can be repurposed as such quite easily.

An early carrier at say 25kt might become an escort or light carrier later on when a real fleet carrier have grown to 75kt in size.

[Froggiest1982 (OP)]

From what I know of NPRs: ~7. 5k tons: DD
~15k tons: Cruiser
~25k tons+: Capital (including Battlecruisers)
And they might have a specialization in the class, like "jump cruiser" for a cruiser with a jump drive.
What I use:
10k tons or less: Corvette
10k-20k: Frigate
20k-30k: Destroyer
30k tons+: Cruiser
And I have yet to figure out how big stuff like BBs will be.
And most of them are specialized, eg "Missile Frigate"
Carriers can be any tonnage, and their specialization is based off of size/role, eg a 15k ton Escort Carrier.

Interesting, looking at this I really believe the NPRs could use a couple of more varieties especially on the lower tonnage part with maybe increasing DD at 10k?

[Lord Solar]

From what I know of NPRs: ~7.  5k tons: DD
~15k tons: Cruiser
~25k tons+: Capital (including Battlecruisers)
And they might have a specialization in the class, like "jump cruiser" for a cruiser with a jump drive. 
What I use:
10k tons or less: Corvette
10k-20k: Frigate
20k-30k: Destroyer
30k tons+: Cruiser
And I have yet to figure out how big stuff like BBs will be. 
And most of them are specialized, eg "Missile Frigate"
Carriers can be any tonnage, and their specialization is based off of size/role, eg a 15k ton Escort Carrier.

Interesting, looking at this I really believe the NPRs could use a couple of more varieties especially on the lower tonnage part with maybe increasing DD at 10k?

They do have some more variety in military tonnage but I'll leave that to you to find out.

[Froggiest1982 (OP)]

My ships tend to be classified depending on both role and displacement and it also as other said will depend on where in a campaign I'm at.

An early destroyer might be 8kt while a later one are 16kt. But the role of the destroyer really never change but the size will. Older destroyers that are still around might be displaced to frigate status as they usually have a similar enough role and can be repurposed as such quite easily.

An early carrier at say 25kt might become an escort or light carrier later on when a real fleet carrier have grown to 75kt in size.

This I understand it can happen later in the game also considering the increasing in capability of both production and shipyards, however I would like to ask for your opinion of what I currently do.

So as you know we cannot expand the displacement capability of the shipyards along with the slipways so we either do one or the other.

I personally set my ship sizes by tonnage displacement (so let's say that a DD will go from 10,000t to 14,500t) and once I reach that tonnage I just increase the slipways.

I get to the point: is it worth to have shipyards keeping increasing tonnage and design bigger ships (as be suggested by few users already) when you could simply increase your output?

For instance when you have your shipyard ready to to get 5 or 6 18k DD I may have already the capability of producing 18 at the time.

For a simple answer let's assume the tech is the same for the both of us and role-play is not in the picture.

[Froggiest1982 (OP)]

From what I know of NPRs: ~7.  5k tons: DD
~15k tons: Cruiser
~25k tons+: Capital (including Battlecruisers)
And they might have a specialization in the class, like "jump cruiser" for a cruiser with a jump drive. 
What I use:
10k tons or less: Corvette
10k-20k: Frigate
20k-30k: Destroyer
30k tons+: Cruiser
And I have yet to figure out how big stuff like BBs will be. 
And most of them are specialized, eg "Missile Frigate"
Carriers can be any tonnage, and their specialization is based off of size/role, eg a 15k ton Escort Carrier.

Interesting, looking at this I really believe the NPRs could use a couple of more varieties especially on the lower tonnage part with maybe increasing DD at 10k?

They do have some more variety in military tonnage but I'll leave that to you to find out.

Well I am taking NPRs not Spoiler Races 

[TheTalkingMeowth]

This I understand it can happen later in the game also considering the increasing in capability of both production and shipyards, however I would like to ask for your opinion of what I currently do.

So as you know we cannot expand the displacement capability of the shipyards along with the slipways so we either do one or the other.

I personally set my ship sizes by tonnage displacement (so let's say that a DD will go from 10,000t to 14,500t) and once I reach that tonnage I just increase the slipways.

I get to the point: is it worth to have shipyards keeping increasing tonnage and design bigger ships (as be suggested by few users already) when you could simply increase your output?

For instance when you have your shipyard ready to to get 5 or 6 18k DD I may have already the capability of producing 18 at the time.

For a simple answer let's assume the tech is the same for the both of us and role-play is not in the picture.

One concern with building lots of slipways is retooling. You cannot retool while you are building a new slipway; nor (AFAICT) can you partially build a new slipway, retool, then finish the slipway. Since new slipways can take a REALLY long time, I often find myself increasing my production capacity by increasing size rather than adding slipways, simply so I can retool if I need to. But I tend to make lots and lots of versions of very similar ships as tech improvements roll out, so I retool my shipyards more often than strictly optimal.

For example, my last game that got anywhere had Hezrou class light cruisers, flights 1 through 5. Same size, same main battery, but incremental electronic, propulsion, and defensive upgrades. I also had 4 flights of Fate class missile cruisers that I was building at the same time, and my needs for 1 or the other swung wildly so I found myself needing to retool my shipyards from Hezrous to Fates and back again. It would have taken ~2 years to add another slipway, during which time who knows what would happen?

[Jorgen_CAB]

My ships tend to be classified depending on both role and displacement and it also as other said will depend on where in a campaign I'm at.

An early destroyer might be 8kt while a later one are 16kt. But the role of the destroyer really never change but the size will. Older destroyers that are still around might be displaced to frigate status as they usually have a similar enough role and can be repurposed as such quite easily.

An early carrier at say 25kt might become an escort or light carrier later on when a real fleet carrier have grown to 75kt in size.

This I understand it can happen later in the game also considering the increasing in capability of both production and shipyards, however I would like to ask for your opinion of what I currently do.

So as you know we cannot expand the displacement capability of the shipyards along with the slipways so we either do one or the other.

I personally set my ship sizes by tonnage displacement (so let's say that a DD will go from 10,000t to 14,500t) and once I reach that tonnage I just increase the slipways.

I get to the point: is it worth to have shipyards keeping increasing tonnage and design bigger ships (as be suggested by few users already) when you could simply increase your output?

For instance when you have your shipyard ready to to get 5 or 6 18k DD I may have already the capability of producing 18 at the time.

For a simple answer let's assume the tech is the same for the both of us and role-play is not in the picture.

To be honest I never find production capacity in terms of ship production too much of any concern at all. If I were to continuously building ships in all military shipyards 24/7 I would ruin my economy pretty fast.

This is more a juggling between expanding your mining and factory output in conjunction with production and maintenance of the military fleet and continuous production of commercial logistics fleet and support vessels as well.

If all you was concerned about was producing ships as fast as possible then just stick with 1000t yards and add slipways... but you would ruin your economy very fast that way and don't come cry to me after...

The benefit with larger ships are so many that it is almost always worth the reduction in production capability in the long run. This does not mean that small ships have their place because they do, especially for their strong defensive value of established space or for their high value in specialisation.

[Froggiest1982 (OP)]

This I understand it can happen later in the game also considering the increasing in capability of both production and shipyards, however I would like to ask for your opinion of what I currently do.

So as you know we cannot expand the displacement capability of the shipyards along with the slipways so we either do one or the other.

I personally set my ship sizes by tonnage displacement (so let's say that a DD will go from 10,000t to 14,500t) and once I reach that tonnage I just increase the slipways.

I get to the point: is it worth to have shipyards keeping increasing tonnage and design bigger ships (as be suggested by few users already) when you could simply increase your output?

For instance when you have your shipyard ready to to get 5 or 6 18k DD I may have already the capability of producing 18 at the time.

For a simple answer let's assume the tech is the same for the both of us and role-play is not in the picture.

One concern with building lots of slipways is retooling. You cannot retool while you are building a new slipway; nor (AFAICT) can you partially build a new slipway, retool, then finish the slipway. Since new slipways can take a REALLY long time, I often find myself increasing my production capacity by increasing size rather than adding slipways, simply so I can retool if I need to. But I tend to make lots and lots of versions of very similar ships as tech improvements roll out, so I retool my shipyards more often than strictly optimal.

For example, my last game that got anywhere had Hezrou class light cruisers, flights 1 through 5. Same size, same main battery, but incremental electronic, propulsion, and defensive upgrades. I also had 4 flights of Fate class missile cruisers that I was building at the same time, and my needs for 1 or the other swung wildly so I found myself needing to retool my shipyards from Hezrous to Fates and back again. It would have taken ~2 years to add another slipway, during which time who knows what would happen?

mmmm interesting point. Probably as I retool only for very specific ships and produce a new class for each new generation I may not be impacted much by that. Add this to the 10% research rate and you can see how much this won't really be a big issue. But I realize this may apply only to me or to the people which share a similar way to play to mine.

My generations are generally determined by the Engine Tech. Missiles are mostly the same sizes so launchers and magazines usually last for very long.

So my Rampant Corvette design (It's a Laser Beam ship) will be pretty much the same till I discover at least Ion engines. I start with Nuclear Pulse tech. When that happens I already have more powerful lasers etc so the Rampant just goes obsolete and I start producing a new class corvette with all the latest designs, while my Independent Corvette Leader design (the eyes of the fleet) gets retooled as soon as new active sensors are available and get obsolete when the new gen is possible.

In a fleet where you have 9 of the Rampant to go with 1 Independent, retooling of 3 or 4 ships out of 50 from time to time it's not a biggie.

For maintenance purpose, every 2 gen, ships goes to scrapyard as I can easily produce 15 or 16 ships in a raw by that point, sometimes even more.

Again this is very simple talks as there is way more to it, such as how many minerals it will cots me and the benefit on the long run; but this is why we have excel installed, right?! 

[Lord Solar]

My ships tend to be classified depending on both role and displacement and it also as other said will depend on where in a campaign I'm at.

An early destroyer might be 8kt while a later one are 16kt. But the role of the destroyer really never change but the size will. Older destroyers that are still around might be displaced to frigate status as they usually have a similar enough role and can be repurposed as such quite easily.

An early carrier at say 25kt might become an escort or light carrier later on when a real fleet carrier have grown to 75kt in size.

This I understand it can happen later in the game also considering the increasing in capability of both production and shipyards, however I would like to ask for your opinion of what I currently do.

So as you know we cannot expand the displacement capability of the shipyards along with the slipways so we either do one or the other.

I personally set my ship sizes by tonnage displacement (so let's say that a DD will go from 10,000t to 14,500t) and once I reach that tonnage I just increase the slipways.

I get to the point: is it worth to have shipyards keeping increasing tonnage and design bigger ships (as be suggested by few users already) when you could simply increase your output?

For instance when you have your shipyard ready to to get 5 or 6 18k DD I may have already the capability of producing 18 at the time.

For a simple answer let's assume the tech is the same for the both of us and role-play is not in the picture.

To be honest I never find production capacity in terms of ship production too much of any concern at all. If I were to continuously building ships in all military shipyards 24/7 I would ruin my economy pretty fast.

This is more a juggling between expanding your mining and factory output in conjunction with production and maintenance of the military fleet and continuous production of commercial logistics fleet and support vessels as well.

If all you was concerned about was producing ships as fast as possible then just stick with 1000t yards and add slipways... but you would ruin your economy very fast that way and don't come cry to me after...

The benefit with larger ships are so many that it is almost always worth the reduction in production capability in the long run. This does not mean that small ships have their place because they do, especially for their strong defensive value of established space or for their high value in specialisation.

If you are can't produce military ships constantly then one of two things are wrong: 1. You have way too many shipyards and slipways 2. (and more likely) your economy isn't very good. I have no troubles making 100k tons of combat ships per anum after year 30.

[Jorgen_CAB]

If you are can't produce military ships constantly then one of two things are wrong: 1. You have way too many shipyards and slipways 2. (and more likely) your economy isn't very good. I have no troubles making 100k tons of combat ships per anum after year 30.

It will be very difficult to expand the economy as fast as you can expand your military yards. I believe you are not constantly expanding your military yards 24/7 outside retooling?!?

I also play with about 10-15% tech progression (conventional start) and that will usually have a pretty strong implication on this... it is way easier to expand the military capability by expanding few shipyards to the point you can't build ships 24/7. Even if you could I see no reason to do it all the time either. From a strategic point of view it can be quite effective to have a strong production capability that you don't use as military ships will cost maintenance over time and that also cost you resources. If you are not at war you don't need a massive offensive fleet. A ship will generally eat up its own production cost in about 16 years (wasting allot of precious Duranium, Gallicite and Uridium)... if you don't need a ship for 20+ years. As long as you have the components ships can quickly be built. You can also use regular industry to pre-build components but never build the ships if you are not at war... that is far more economic than building ships and not using them for 20 years. But if you need another 20 destroyers you can quickly build them as you have the components for them.

The less resources you spend on the military the more resources you can spend on expanding everything else instead. The problem is that you always need to trade something for something else. There is not one single straight answer that is the right one. How many ships are too many and how many are too little... how can you ever know?!?

As long as you can defend your territory you don't need a massive offensive fleet on stand by all the time, that massive fleet is a huge drain... I mean I can go many decades without war quite often. Some wars are just stalemates or low intensity any way so don't need a huge fleet. Quite often going on the offensive can be way too expensive as you already are exploring and expanding in other places and all effort already goes 100% into that. So even if you did win after a huge expansion of fleets and ground troops you will not be able to take advantage of it as your expansion already is at 100% capacity elsewhere.

Also... the amount of ships you can build after a set time period are not really relevant as that depends on so many factors, starting population, industry and research and survey multiplier and more importantly the actual need for military ships within that time period. I have had games (almost always conventional starts) where it takes 50-60 years just to get out of sol, let alone meet a hostile alien... why would I need to build 100kt ships per year after 20 years, that would be a huge waste of resources and production at that time. I probably could do that it I wanted to, but I rarely want to.

[Lord Solar]

If you are can't produce military ships constantly then one of two things are wrong: 1. You have way too many shipyards and slipways 2. (and more likely) your economy isn't very good. I have no troubles making 100k tons of combat ships per anum after year 30.

It will be very difficult to expand the economy as fast as you can expand your military yards. I believe you are not constantly expanding your military yards 24/7 outside retooling?!?

I also play with about 10-15% tech progression (conventional start) and that will usually have a pretty strong implication on this... it is way easier to expand the military capability by expanding few shipyards to the point you can't build ships 24/7. Even if you could I see no reason to do it all the time either. From a strategic point of view it can be quite effective to have a strong production capability that you don't use as military ships will cost maintenance over time and that also cost you resources. If you are not at war you don't need a massive offensive fleet. A ship will generally eat up its own production cost in about 16 years... if you don't need a ship for 20+ years. As long as you have the components ships can quickly be built. You can also use regular industry to pre-build components but never build the ships if you are not at war... that is far more economic that building ships and not using them for 10 years. But if you need another 20 destroyers you can quickly build them as you have the components for them.

The less resources you spend on the military the more resources you can spend on expanding everything else instead. The problem is that you always need to trade something for something else. There is not one single straight answer that is the right one. How many ships are too many and how many are too little... how can you ever know?!?

As long as you can defend your territory you don't need a massive offensive fleet on stand by all the time that massive fleet is a huge drain... I mean I can go many decades without war quite often. Some wars are just stalemates or low intensity any way so don't need a huge fleet. Quite often going on the offensive can be way too expensive as you already are exploring and expanding in other places and all effort already goes 100% into that. So even if you did win after a huge expansion of fleets and ground troops you will not be able to take advantage of it as your expansion already is at 100% capacity elsewhere.

Also... the amount of ships you can build after a set time period are not really relevant as that depends on so many factors, starting population, industry and research and survey multiplier and more importantly the actual need for military ships within that time period. I have had games (almost always conventional starts) where it takes 50-60 years just to get out of sol, let alone meet a hostile alien... why would I need to build 100kt ships per year after 20 years, that would be a huge waste of resources and production at that time. I probably could do that it I wanted to, but I rarely want to.

I think it's a waste to have shipyards not making ships (and making components if you want rapid expansion). Otherwise they just sit in orbit not doing anything.

[xenoscepter]

They sit in orbit occupying workers, who by extension produce Wealth. The Unemployed do not produce wealth as far as I know.