Author Topic: Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience  (Read 458 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Edbanger (OP)

  • Leading Rate
  • *
  • E
  • Posts: 5
  • Thanked: 3 times
Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience
« on: August 05, 2020, 08:47:46 AM »
I am sorry up front that this will be a bit of a long post, but I have many ideas and the build on each other, some would be a lot easier then others to implement so I will try to start there. 
I am also aware that this is a Space Empire building game, and that ground combat is secondary but Organizational charts for Military units is somewhat of a personal obsession, and there is great storytelling possibility in planet side wars or Deep space boarding actions so here are my Ideas to improve the systems that are currently in place. 

#1 when you create a unit the number it gets should be sequential with that unit type, not with the total units ever produced so when I get around to making my first Mech unit its not numbered 347th but instead 1st and so on.   to add to this, if a numbed unit is destroyed then the number should be assigned to the next unit of its type to be built thereby replacing losses with out having to reorganize the whole army. 

#2 When you create a formation in the Formation planner, the new formation should be added to the unit list on the left so that you can use it as a component of a larger unit lead by a higher ranking officer. 
At the moment you require a HQ unit to attach sub units to and the HQ unit is pretty high level, you can also not nest them, so you can only have one subdivision of a large force, this means that you are creating small Captain lead forces that are independent of large structure that you can place aboard ships, or Gigantic homogeneous Army's that have at best one subdivision level below the General.   if you could make Companies (or equivalent) led by captains, then use those as building blocks for Battalions lead by Majors, which in turn get formed into Regiments lead by Colonel's who form Brigades lead by Generals, that form Divisions by 2 star Generals, forming Corps lead by 3 stars, then Army's lead by 4 stars and Army Groups lead by Field Marshals  and so on.   (Of course what you call each level is up to you) but now all your officers are in a single command chain but each level of it has an officer who you can assign a task to and therefore you can send or appropriate sized elements to deal with individual missions in either attack or defense.   and because you can design multiple types of Company and then mix and match them to create multiple types of Battalion and so on your army can be as varied as you care to make it, but quickly scalable.   you could also say stack two infantry Battalions with one Artillery Battalion a then add an Engineering Company and a Scout company all to form a Regiment, as the smaller units can be attached to any superior Officer, so a Captain fits directly under a Colonel as easily as a Major. 

#3 Command size.   this is now a slightly more novel concept that would enhance the Ideas above: Each unit has a Certain Administrative cost and each command officer has a certain Command capacity, therefor a formation that is below the commanders command capacity gains a benefit to its performance as the officer has more time and energy to deal with individual issues, but a large unit that exceeds its Commanders capacity gets a debuff as the commander struggles to address the basic needs of operation, In the real world this is why Military units are often between 3-5 in size, or mad up of that many sub units, as this means each Rank only has to pay attention to that many subordinates.   I would say that the Basic units represent Platoon/Squadron/Battery/Troop sized about 30-50 men or about 3-6 Vehicles or Guns l by a Lieutenant so a Captain should comfortably command 3-5 of them and uncomfortably manage up to say 10.   then a Major should be able to deal with about 3-5 Captains and so on up the chain.   This could be modified by troop quality with more Elite forces requiring more Administration because of their Training and Equipment, where barely armed Conscripts could be fielded in massed units, as the Debuff has little to no effect on forces that have no buffs to begin with. 

#4 Training, At present you have to design each formation, and then train as many as you want one after another, then you can attach smaller ones to HQ formations to make bigger units.   I propose splitting the Ground Unit Training Facilities into Training Camps and Material Factories, These work similar to Maintenance facilities producing a generic Personal or Material stockpile and each unit has a required number of Personal and Material Required to build them, as well as a per month upkeep cost.   As you design Formations, the required Build and upkeep stats are presented, and if you Click the mobilize button, the formation will be moved to your order of battle, drawing in the appropriate number of officers and creating promotion opportunities, as well as absorbing the Personal and Material from your stockpile.   If you have insufficient stockpiles Unfinished unites will be marked as understrength as if they had taken casualties and suffer as appropriate reducing their fighting strength.   Understrength units will draw down reinforcements as a priority though this could lead to other units missing out on resupply and suffering depletion that way so it would be important not to construct too much army in one go or you will quickly run into Logistical problems. 

#5 Unit Designing.   at present you design a unit by selecting a Type, Armour and Component.   and these 3 options designate the capabilities of the unit (I am still assuming that each Unit is Platoon size or equivalent) I would suggest that you add more categories and allow some of them to be multiple selections, Example: Type [Infantry/Mounted Infantry/ Light Vehicle/ Medium Vehicle etc] choose one.    Armour [Light/Medium/Heavy/Powered etc] Choose zero to one.   Primary Weapons [Light Personal/Personal/Improved Personal/Crew-served Antipersonnel etc] Choose one.   Training [Basic/Advanced/Commando/Desert warfare/Mountain Warfare etc]  Choose zero to as many as you wish.   Equipment [Long Ranged Comms/Entrenching tools/Active Cammo/Sensor grid/Amphibious gear/ Night vision goggles etc] Choose zero to as many as you wish.   
Each additional training regime increases the personal cost of the unit as members mus spend longer in training, the choice of weapon and Armour sets the base Material cost for the unit and each additional piece of equipment increases it.   The Administrative cost of the unit is based on the combined Personal and Material Cost as more needs to be managed to keep the unit in fighting condition.   you might also have a Size modifier so that you could make smaller but more Elite units with less manpower but more training/equipment without overwhelming the commander of the formations ability to manage, For infantry this would be reducing the squad size with in the Platoon son instead of 3 squads of 12 men with Rifles and Steel helmets.   you might have 3 squads of 6 Powered Armour boarding troops trained for zero G and equipped for Vacuum and breaching, The Powered Armour troops would still probably be more expensive, but by reducing the manpower you could keep the expense manageable, with Vehicles the Size would be the number in the squadron, so 6 light buggies, or 3 Main battle tanks or 1 Supper heavy mobile fortress, Likewise you could always increase the base unit size if the troops were cheep enough or you were willing to suffer the penalties of logistics and administration to field huge forces of heavy well equipped troops.   To this end I would make the Penalties or Buffs from Command apply more to Assaults and relocation then to Defense, as it is many times easier to manage units that are not going anywhere. 

Any way these are some of my Crazy Ideas, I am open to comments and suggestions.   I would love to see such concepts implemented, though I am under no illusions that the Devs will have either the Time or inclination to do so, this is pretty much Blue sky thinking

With Regards Edbanger


-Edit, I just noticed that I posted this in the wrong section, I should have placed it in C# Mechanics Suggestions not C#Suggestions, my apologizes
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 09:56:43 AM by Edbanger »
 
The following users thanked this post: Marski, Black, serger

Offline Black

  • Captain
  • **********
  • B
  • Posts: 538
  • Thanked: 90 times
Re: Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2020, 02:01:44 PM »
I saw point one requested previously and I agree that it would be nice feature. I build lot of Supply Battalions that are consumed during combat and it increases numbering of units significantly.

I am not sure if I understand your second point correctly, but we can make formations that have many levels. I am using Regiments to Divisions to Corps to Army, but you can go as low as squads if you want, Marski actually does that, as you can see in his examples:

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10893.msg138679#msg138679
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11765.0

You have to do it manually so it is quite micro heavy, but it can be done. But I would definitely like some ground force manager where you can plan whole division and give the command to your Ground Force Centers to produce it.

For point three, I wonder if mass of barely trained conscripts is easier to command than elite unit that went through long training. But I agree that if commander has spare command capacity there could be some bonuses for that.

Point four is similar to how Japan industry works in WITPAE, you have manpower, armament points and supplies. New formations and casualties are filled from that so if you do not have enough when new unit is formed, you get understrength units. Interesting idea overall. Would be especially nice for replenishing units that suffered casualties.

I think your point five goes too deep for current ground combat model, but I like it in general. I am currently using genetic modification levels to simulate various levels of training. So conscripts have no genetic modification and special forces like Delta Force or whatever have maximum level. I would definitely like ability to get several levels of experience (green/regular/veteran/elite for example) in exchange for longer training time.
 
The following users thanked this post: Marski, Edbanger

Offline Marski

  • Commander
  • *********
  • Posts: 322
  • Thanked: 85 times
Re: Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2020, 04:00:30 PM »
All good points that I agree with except #2, you can add officer ranks both to naval and ground force officers. I've added three additional ranks myself in order to properly model an army.
I'll put in my two cents and say that the ground unit design view, "formation templates" tab definitely could use the same type of category windows and boxes similiar to ones found in "ship design" screen, because it gets very cluttered with HQ units, infantry, vehicle types and static units.

Another suggestion of mine that became apparent in a planetary invasion carried out by a motorstrelki regiment which Black linked to;
-Artillery formations under their own HQ be able to provide artillery support to other formations, to units under their own HQ by merely selecting the artillery formation HQ and right-clicking to the HQ unit of a formation that you want support provided to, and during combat a dice roll decides which frontline units under that specific HQ receive supporting artillery fire (right now you have to move the artillery units manually to under the HQ of a infantry platoon in order to provide support to a single squad)
-Do the same to independent forward-observer/fire-direction units.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 04:14:31 PM by Marski »
 
The following users thanked this post: Black, serger, Edbanger

Offline Edbanger (OP)

  • Leading Rate
  • *
  • E
  • Posts: 5
  • Thanked: 3 times
Re: Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2020, 06:34:47 PM »
I think my second point was a little poorly explained, the concept I was trying to make is in the formation planner, in the left you have units and on the right you have the formations you are designing, but once you have made a formation, I would like it to appear on the left, perhaps in a second list or perhaps just below all the units, so you could the add it an any other units/formations to a new higher level formation, that now has a minimum rank one higher than any of its component formations
 

Offline Black

  • Captain
  • **********
  • B
  • Posts: 538
  • Thanked: 90 times
Re: Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2020, 02:46:26 AM »
Yes I think that rework based of ship design screen could be good beginning.

Artillery formations could work similarly to ships providing orbital support - You have list of available ships you can link to ground units. I think it could work same for artillery units. We could just select to which formation they should provide support.

And I think if you make for example dedicated AA formation it will have same problem as artillery formation, you have to put the unit directly under HQ you want to cover as well.
 
The following users thanked this post: Edbanger

Offline BasileusMaximos

  • Commander
  • *********
  • B
  • Posts: 386
  • Thanked: 39 times
Re: Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2020, 06:33:06 PM »
There are two main things I want for ground units:

1. The ability to retrain units to use the latest racial armor and weapons tech

2. The ability to create larger formation templates out of smaller formations so I don't have to heard cats trying to form a division out of a ton of companies every time.

I also think the way ground units are trained is kinda weird. An army-sized unit takes up as many ground force construction buildings as a company. Ground force constructors should work like regular factories and simply generate construction units each turn to build ground units.
 
The following users thanked this post: Barkhorn, Edbanger

Offline Edbanger (OP)

  • Leading Rate
  • *
  • E
  • Posts: 5
  • Thanked: 3 times
Re: Suggestions for a improved Ground unit and army experience
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2020, 02:52:38 AM »
That first point could be addressed by having the formation template actually a template, if you change it all previous units of that name get updated and must reinforce with Material and Personal points to achieve the new strength.

The second point you made was pretty much what I was going for with my second idea. 
 

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72