Author Topic: Player-Controlled Shipping Network  (Read 1243 times)

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Offline Borealis4x (OP)

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Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« on: February 03, 2021, 01:43:23 PM »
Civilian Lines are a great start to try and combat micro-management but it doesn't go far enough imo. They are very unreliable and inexact, and can only ship facilities. What I propose instead is a sort of player-run Shipping Line that uses freighters you build and assign to it in order to automatically ship the right stuff to the right place.

The Shipping Network would handle minerals, colonists, fuel, munitions and MSP in addition to facilities. Planets can be designated as Sources for all these goods and Stockpile Quotas can be set to make sure a planet never runs low on a particular good without getting resupplied. For instance, if a colony doesn't have a source of Duranium in the system you can set a Stockpile Quota and the Shipping Network will automatically send freighters full of Duranium from designated sources until the stockpile is full enough. Planets can also be prioritized to receive shipping.

You can set Conditional Orders for the whole Shipping Network. By default, ships will refuel in-between missions and when at 25% capacity. They won't accept missions outside of their range.

The Shipping Network also applies to Mining and Fuel Harvesters. When assigned, these ships will automatically fly to a valid source, harvest until full, and then unload at the closest available colony prioritizing those with a demand for their goods and then those who source their goods. Ships themselves can be designated as sources and be given Stockpile Quotas.

Colonization can be automated as well; the player can set a 'target population' that will automatically place orders for colonists AND the infrastructure to support them. The Shipping Network will never ship colonists to a planet that can't support them.

Production Quotas are like Stockpile Quotas, but instead of relying on the Shipping Network the colony will fulfil it by actually producing the designated good. Production Quotas when set higher than Stockpile Quotas produce a surplus that can be distributed via your Shipping Network throughout your empire. For example, a colony can set its Production Quota to make sure it is always working towards having 10,000 ASMs but have a Stockpile Quota of only 1,000 ASMs, meaning it has 9,000 ASM available to export to colonies that request it. This allows you to make sure you always producing enough of a good without wastefully draining your resources on continuous production.

Ships in the Network can either be assigned to service the whole empire of a few choice systems. They can be organized into Task Groups and you can specify what kinds of jobs they can take. By default, ships in the Network will take any job they can given their design.

Such a mechanic is large, complex, and would radically alter the game for the better imo. Every game I've quit was due to the logistics spiraling out of control with no way to suitably automate them, so lessening that burden I think should be a top priority.
 
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Offline xenoscepter

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2021, 04:06:28 PM »
 - I'd settle for the ability to make ships available to the Civilian Shipping Lines, maybe a checkbox in the Ship Design screen? A Civilian Shipyard Complex to go with it, and a pseudo-fuel system like the NPRs have to make forward fuel bases more useful. Make them check for range and not go where they can't, but never actually run out of fuel or track it so they don't get stuck.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2021, 04:20:30 PM »
We also could get access to a bit better ways to conduct contracts.

Right now I have to update my contracts every year or else I'm spammed with messages they can't pick up stuff.

I should be able to set contract such as a general demand and general supply of installations. Which means a planet that build mines have a general supply and then I can set a demand for 100 mines and ships would not just look at the demand but that there is a mine available before they get assigned to pick it up. Once a mine is reserved nothing else can pick it up. This way I would not have to babysit my supply and demand all the time.

In addition to this I would like to have more command to automate shipping runs manually... even changing things like amounts and delay times on orders without having to recreate the entire order would be really good. Let's say you have a transport set to pick up 5000 Duranium and deliver them to X colony and a delay of 90 days. After a few years you might want to change to 90 days to 75 days as you need more stuff being sent there every year. Now you have to recreate the order... if would be easier to just pick the row and change the value.

There probably are many other automation functionalities I would like to be added.
 

Offline Droll

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2021, 08:45:10 PM »
We also could get access to a bit better ways to conduct contracts.

Right now I have to update my contracts every year or else I'm spammed with messages they can't pick up stuff.

I should be able to set contract such as a general demand and general supply of installations. Which means a planet that build mines have a general supply and then I can set a demand for 100 mines and ships would not just look at the demand but that there is a mine available before they get assigned to pick it up. Once a mine is reserved nothing else can pick it up. This way I would not have to babysit my supply and demand all the time.

In addition to this I would like to have more command to automate shipping runs manually... even changing things like amounts and delay times on orders without having to recreate the entire order would be really good. Let's say you have a transport set to pick up 5000 Duranium and deliver them to X colony and a delay of 90 days. After a few years you might want to change to 90 days to 75 days as you need more stuff being sent there every year. Now you have to recreate the order... if would be easier to just pick the row and change the value.

There probably are many other automation functionalities I would like to be added.

Being able to set reserve levels for installations and create minerals contracts for civies to fill planets up to reserve would be brilliant. Everything else is a bonus for me.
 
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Online QuakeIV

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2021, 09:37:34 PM »
We also could get access to a bit better ways to conduct contracts.

Right now I have to update my contracts every year or else I'm spammed with messages they can't pick up stuff.

I should be able to set contract such as a general demand and general supply of installations. Which means a planet that build mines have a general supply and then I can set a demand for 100 mines and ships would not just look at the demand but that there is a mine available before they get assigned to pick it up. Once a mine is reserved nothing else can pick it up. This way I would not have to babysit my supply and demand all the time.

In addition to this I would like to have more command to automate shipping runs manually... even changing things like amounts and delay times on orders without having to recreate the entire order would be really good. Let's say you have a transport set to pick up 5000 Duranium and deliver them to X colony and a delay of 90 days. After a few years you might want to change to 90 days to 75 days as you need more stuff being sent there every year. Now you have to recreate the order... if would be easier to just pick the row and change the value.

There probably are many other automation functionalities I would like to be added.

Being able to set reserve levels for installations and create minerals contracts for civies to fill planets up to reserve would be brilliant. Everything else is a bonus for me.

This would be really nice.

I would really like to have more automation for moving materials around in general just due to the sheer agony of trying to do it manually.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2021, 03:05:53 AM »
In terms of contracts there could be a way to automate them as well.

Let's say I could add a demand like... 50% of the workforce you use Mines, 30% should use Construction Factories. The game would then add actual demand to the colony based on that rule so as the colony grows demand would be added automatically. To be honest I should not need to add demand manually if I can automate it.

The same could go for supply... if a colony are set to 20% Construction Factory it will add any factories above that level to the supply of factories.

When a civilian ship looks for a contract it would then be able to dynamically find a supply and demand source and things would sort of solve itself.


I think we should be able to do this with either hard numbers or as a percentage... I could say that Earth should have 1 Mass Driver anything above that will automatically go to the supply of Mass Drivers on that planet.

Minerals work the same way... anything above the reserve levels goes to the supply and everything below becomes a demand. The civilians will then figure the rest out by themselves. You probably are better of having a separate demand and supply level for minerals though... I think that would work best. Perhaps you should have for all contracts you could automate.

My only work would be to set the level or ratio of stuff that I like my worlds to have.

If I also can have government trading company and assign my own transports and colony ships too it that would be even better. Do as suggested above and make them use the same fuel system as the AI does. It is then up to us players to make sure that fuel is distributed accordingly.

Add fuel and MSP distribution to the system as well so we can assign tankers and supply ship to move that between location with at least large stations not stationary tankers or supply ships.
 

Offline Rince Wind

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2021, 12:13:08 PM »
While we are at it: priority contracts

Double the pay for civlians and they prioritize that one. Everything that is assigned before you uncheck the priority will recieve the extra pay.
 
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Online QuakeIV

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2021, 09:55:33 PM »
Oh also:

It would be nice if there was an option to set a world to only receive citizens from civil shipping if there are jobs for them.  I personally think this should be the default.
 

Offline Borealis4x (OP)

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2021, 09:54:02 AM »
Oh also:

It would be nice if there was an option to set a world to only receive citizens from civil shipping if there are jobs for them.  I personally think this should be the default.

Migration is another aspect of the game I think could do with some fleshing out. There should be 'push' and 'pull' factors for planets based on stuff like unemployment/work shortages that influences how attractive they are as a colony destination/source.
 

Offline Ektor

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2021, 01:50:22 AM »
I really like this idea.
 

Online QuakeIV

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2021, 01:52:38 AM »
Oh also:

It would be nice if there was an option to set a world to only receive citizens from civil shipping if there are jobs for them.  I personally think this should be the default.

Migration is another aspect of the game I think could do with some fleshing out. There should be 'push' and 'pull' factors for planets based on stuff like unemployment/work shortages that influences how attractive they are as a colony destination/source.

I agree.  In particular I dislike that I can have a 0.0 colony cost 'destination' colony more or less vacuum my home planet dry and not really notice until its exceeded the population of the homeworld.  Its even weirder when my budget then crashes after I disable this, because I was making so much money taxing the shipping companies for the privilege of moving workers somewhere that they wont have any employment and aren't needed, so why on earth did the workers pay to move there in the first place?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 01:54:17 AM by QuakeIV »
 

Offline Kylemmie

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2021, 09:50:34 AM »
Oh also:

It would be nice if there was an option to set a world to only receive citizens from civil shipping if there are jobs for them.  I personally think this should be the default.

Migration is another aspect of the game I think could do with some fleshing out. There should be 'push' and 'pull' factors for planets based on stuff like unemployment/work shortages that influences how attractive they are as a colony destination/source.
\\

I agree.  In particular I dislike that I can have a 0.0 colony cost 'destination' colony more or less vacuum my home planet dry and not really notice until its exceeded the population of the homeworld.  Its even weirder when my budget then crashes after I disable this, because I was making so much money taxing the shipping companies for the privilege of moving workers somewhere that they wont have any employment and aren't needed, so why on earth did the workers pay to move there in the first place?

You could see it as your fault :)   You paid them too high a wage on your homeworld, now they have a sizable nest egg to go off to an exotic new planet and buy lots of land and be rich....and not work.

The issue is the current simplicity. Citizens aren't required to work to live comfortably, therefor zipping off to some planet that has no jobs isn't a problem.

A Reserve setting for pop (like minerals) or a max pop allowed setting on a body would work.
 

Online QuakeIV

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2021, 08:38:22 PM »
I'd really prefer if it just didn't overfill past available jobs by default...
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2021, 02:45:49 AM »

You could see it as your fault :)   You paid them too high a wage on your homeworld, now they have a sizable nest egg to go off to an exotic new planet and buy lots of land and be rich....and not work.

The issue is the current simplicity. Citizens aren't required to work to live comfortably, therefor zipping off to some planet that has no jobs isn't a problem.

A Reserve setting for pop (like minerals) or a max pop allowed setting on a body would work.

Then again... are they really not working?!?

In my opinion this is a faulty logic to begin with. The economics in the game are just very abstracted. Available workers just mean population NOT required for basic civilian economic needs, it does not mean these people have no jobs. It's not like society require the government to provide these people with jobs outside of the regular sectors.

This is just a highly abstracted mechanic. Available worker is just that...  available to the player for use in the buildings and installation they build. Its's not like your population will become mad or low on morale if there are allot of available workforce.

It also should not be a huge problem to move people as long as you don't have worker shortage someplace, then you need to make sure that world no longer provide population for colonisation.
 

Offline d.rodin

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Re: Player-Controlled Shipping Network
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2021, 02:48:38 PM »
We also could get access to a bit better ways to conduct contracts.

Right now I have to update my contracts every year or else I'm spammed with messages they can't pick up stuff.

I should be able to set contract such as a general demand and general supply of installations. Which means a planet that build mines have a general supply and then I can set a demand for 100 mines and ships would not just look at the demand but that there is a mine available before they get assigned to pick it up. Once a mine is reserved nothing else can pick it up. This way I would not have to babysit my supply and demand all the time.

In addition to this I would like to have more command to automate shipping runs manually... even changing things like amounts and delay times on orders without having to recreate the entire order would be really good. Let's say you have a transport set to pick up 5000 Duranium and deliver them to X colony and a delay of 90 days. After a few years you might want to change to 90 days to 75 days as you need more stuff being sent there every year. Now you have to recreate the order... if would be easier to just pick the row and change the value.

There probably are many other automation functionalities I would like to be added.

Being able to set reserve levels for installations and create minerals contracts for civies to fill planets up to reserve would be brilliant. Everything else is a bonus for me.

This would be really nice.

I would really like to have more automation for moving materials around in general just due to the sheer agony of trying to do it manually.

i use fast 25k cargo size transports
set reserve of minerals on colony
orders (starting point : Earth):

Earth: load Durantium x1000
Earth: load Neutronium x1000
and all other minerals types x1000
Earth: Refuel&Resupply
Colony: Unload all minerals
Colony: Load all Minerals
Earth: Unload all Minerals

and Cycle Moves.
If minerals are belov colony reserve level - transport picks up nothing, if minerals are above reserve level - transport picks it up and unloads at Earth
 

 

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