Author Topic: Post Report - First Spoiler Enounter for me  (Read 519 times)

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Offline nebbish (OP)

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Post Report - First Spoiler Enounter for me
« on: February 08, 2021, 10:16:22 AM »
Meet the spoilers for my first time here are the results. 

Sent a small taskforce which was swarmed with missiles which retreated.   Built a bigger taskforce over the next 3 years then came back and this was the results of the action:

Ion tech fleet using 5% research - quite behind in many techs.   My beam tech was quite lacking.   Spoilers defiantly out teched my fleet so had to rely on the mass swarm method.   Here was the line up:

Fleet:
27 x Light Cruisers - CL III - 20K Tonnage - (should of called them heavy cruisers as I never built anything bigger)
2 x Light Cruiser Scouts - CLS II 20K Tonnage
4 x Starpost - 20K Tonnage Each Starpost carrying 14K of gunboats - (Stations which were intended to protect Planets using gunboats, I already had these before the encounter but decided to use 4 tugs to help with the encounter)

Gunboats: all 1k tonnage each
36 x Panther II (Attack Beam Gunboat)
16 x Defender II (Point Defense Gunboat)
4 x Searcher I (Scout Gunboat)

Total tonnage of fleet - 660K Capital Fleet - 56k Gunboats




Designs as below:

CL III class Light Cruiser      19,999 tons       468 Crew       2,910.  1 BP       TCS 400    TH 2,734    EM 0
6836 km/s      Armour 7-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 138      Sensors 12/12/0/0      DCR 7      PPV 85.  2
Maint Life 4.  56 Years     MSP 7,036    AFR 457%    IFR 6.  3%    1YR 550    5YR 8,255    Max Repair 273.  44 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Morale Check Required   

Naval - Papathanassiou-Militis Ion Drive  EP546.  88 (5)    Power 2734.  4    Fuel Use 153.  74%    Signature 546.  88    Explosion 17%
Fuel Capacity 1,200,000 Litres    Range 7 billion km (11 days at full power)

Butler & Robertson Armaments 20 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (7)    Range 100,000km     TS: 6,836 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 25       
Lawrence-Osborne Quad Barnes & Bond Armaments Company Gauss Cannon R100-33.  00 Turret (3x8)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Lucas-Wall Sensor Systems Beam Fire Control R144-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 38 31
Point Defense - Mccarthy & Weston Beam Fire Control R12-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 12,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
North & Ford Pebble Bed Reactor R26 (1)     Total Power Output 25.  6    Exp 5%

Ship Sensor - Birch & Talbot Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor AS37-R100 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 37m km    Resolution 100
Missile Sensor - Birch & Talbot Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor AS7-R1 (1)     GPS 40     Range 8m km    MCR 718.  1k km    Resolution 1
Bolton Electronics Industries Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.  4m km
Dobson-Bishop EM Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.  4m km

ECCM-1 (2)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


CLS II class Light Cruiser      19,816 tons       523 Crew       2,929.  2 BP       TCS 396    TH 1,641    EM 0
4139 km/s      Armour 3-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 106      Sensors 300/300/0/0      DCR 7      PPV 43.  2
Maint Life 3.  93 Years     MSP 9,446    AFR 449%    IFR 6.  2%    1YR 971    5YR 14,562    Max Repair 500 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Morale Check Required   

Naval - Papathanassiou-Militis Ion Drive  EP546.  88 (3)    Power 1640.  6    Fuel Use 153.  74%    Signature 546.  88    Explosion 17%
Fuel Capacity 1,200,000 Litres    Range 7.  1 billion km (19 days at full power)

Lawrence-Osborne Quad Barnes & Bond Armaments Company Gauss Cannon R100-33.  00 Turret (3x8)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Point Defense - Mccarthy & Weston Beam Fire Control R12-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 12,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Missile Sensor - Haynes-Davies Active Search Sensor AS30-R1 (1)     GPS 500     Range 30.  9m km    MCR 2.  8m km    Resolution 1
Knight-Finch Sensor Systems EM Sensor EM50-300 (1)     Sensitivity 300     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  136.  9m km
Thermal Sensor TH50-300 (1)     Sensitivity 300     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  136.  9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes



Panther II class Gunboat      1,000 tons       40 Crew       191.  2 BP       TCS 20    TH 225    EM 0
11253 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 7      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 4
Maint Life 1.  46 Years     MSP 71    AFR 80%    IFR 1.  1%    1YR 37    5YR 557    Max Repair 112.  5 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 15 days    Morale Check Required   

Gunboat - Sieradzki-Szafraniec Marine Ion Drive  EP225.  00 (1)    Power 225    Fuel Use 357.  77%    Signature 225    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 51,000 Litres    Range 2.  57 billion km (63 hours at full power)

French-Parkes Weapon Systems 15 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 11,253 km/s     Power 6-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 15       
Gunboat - Fox Sensor Systems Beam Fire Control R72-TS7200 (1)     Max Range: 72,000 km   TS: 7,200 km/s     86 72 58 44 31 17 3 0 0 0
Manning Thrust Pebble Bed Reactor R2 (1)     Total Power Output 2    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes



Defender II class Gunboat      1,000 tons       40 Crew       202.  3 BP       TCS 20    TH 225    EM 0
11253 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 7      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 4
Maint Life 1.  46 Years     MSP 72    AFR 80%    IFR 1.  1%    1YR 38    5YR 563    Max Repair 112.  5 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 15 days    Morale Check Required   

Gunboat - Sieradzki-Szafraniec Marine Ion Drive  EP225.  00 (1)    Power 225    Fuel Use 357.  77%    Signature 225    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 51,000 Litres    Range 2.  57 billion km (63 hours at full power)

Barnes & Bond Armaments Company Gauss Cannon R100-33.  00 (2x2)    Range 10,000km     TS: 11,253 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 33.  00%     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Gunboat - Fox Sensor Systems Beam Fire Control R72-TS7200 (1)     Max Range: 72,000 km   TS: 7,200 km/s     86 72 58 44 31 17 3 0 0 0
Manning Thrust Pebble Bed Reactor R2 (1)     Total Power Output 2    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes



Searcher I class Gunboat      994 tons       30 Crew       159.  2 BP       TCS 20    TH 84    EM 0
4225 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 5      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.  55 Years     MSP 50    AFR 79%    IFR 1.  1%    1YR 24    5YR 357    Max Repair 42 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 15 days    Morale Check Required   

Gunboat - Mebrete Aeromarine Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP84.  00 (1)    Power 84    Fuel Use 76.  38%    Signature 84    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 15,000 Litres    Range 3.  6 billion km (9 days at full power)

Missile Sensor - Birch & Talbot Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor AS7-R1 (1)     GPS 40     Range 8m km    MCR 718.  1k km    Resolution 1
Ship Sensor - Birch & Talbot Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor AS37-R100 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 37m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes









Ok so thats the line up, before the battle began I had tested their missiles out and had managed to have active sensors within their planets to see the total tonnage to of their fleet.   Below is listed what I was up against.   I didnt know which ships had fired the missiles but I did learn of their total missile launchers numbers from my first encounter and the speeds of the ships as they did give chase in my first encounter.   The actual ships with launchers is listed below as well:

Asgard x 3 (Max Speed Seen 4887) (Tonnage 18990)
Berserker x 1 (6 Launchers Size 6 ROF 15) Range about 60 Mil KM (Max Speed Seen 4887) (Tonnage 9494)
Gotterdammerung x 1 (Max Speed Seen 4887) (Tonnage 9456)
Grendel x 1 (Station) (Tonnage 18831)
Hel x 2 (Station) (58 Launchers Size 1 ROF 10) Range about 8 Mil KM (Tonnage 18850)
Thor x 1 (6 Launchers Size 6 ROF 15) Range about 60 Mil KM (Max Speed Seen 4887)(Tonnage 9494)
Troll x 2 (Station) (Tonnage 18900)
Tyr x 1 (30 Launchers Size 1 ROF 10) Range about 8 Mil KM (Max Speed Seen 4887) (Tonnage 18980)
Woden x 3 (Max Speed Seen 4887) (Tonnage 28450)


This was my initial Intel.   So I believed I had the tonnage to overwhealm and a speed advantage.   Their total tonnage being 284,075.   Now I had over double this. 



So lets begin with the sequence of events.   

Stage 1 - The Approach - My fleet moved as one tugs and cruisers and starposts all together moving at a slow speed of roughly 2,200.   One CLS scout cruiser is left to watch the warp point.   The other scout cruiser stays with the fleet.   Once i reached around 60 mil distance from the Planet the size 6 launchers began their bombardment.   This proved to be no problem for my fleets massive point defense with the missiles coming in at a speed of over 35,000km.   But due to an issue in my orders leaving the tugs outside range of the point defense accidently took a couple of hits damaging their engines.   At this point I decided to leave the starports behind and undocked the entire gunboat squads.   The tugs returned and limped outside of range of the planet on their own. 

Stage 2 - The Capitals and Gunboats all stayed together travelling at the slowest speed of the capitals going 4139 ms.   But once within just over 2.  1 million KM range this was when I realised it was going to get messy. 

Stage 3 - roughly 90 size 1 missiles arrive every 10 seconds or so at a speed of 72,000ms.   Firstly hitting the scout cruiser CLS II.   The first loss of many.   Then the next wave destroyed all the searcher gunboats in one volley.   The fleet with the capital scout now dead speeds up to a faster speed of 6,836.   Its interesting that the AI went for my sensors first! My point defence was pretty much useless against these missiles due to the speed of them.  I would only take out about 10 missiles on average per a volley with a 1% or 2% chance to hit them.

The enemy ships decide to target only the capital ships.   This is very fortunate on my part as the gunboat fleet would of easily been shredded at this point with their thin armour.   Now begins the race for the fleet to reach the planet before their armour runs out.   The enemy began to focus fire on each cruiser one by one. 

Each cruiser had 7 layers of armour with a surface area of 65.   A total amount of armour of 455 each.   Looking at the positions of the wreck each cruiser lost brought the fleet over 350km closer to the enemy planet.   6 Cruisers CL III are lost before the fleet has time to close range.   Leaving a fleet of 21 cruisers CL III.   But things get worse!!

Stage 4 - Within 200km range of the planets this is when things heat up (get it lasers?)
STO forces are detected of 2,400 tonnage.   and their biggest ships the woden class ships show their true colours. 

Woden x 3 (Max Speed Seen 4887) (Tonnage 28450)
22 x Laser DMG 16 217,054 KM ROF 20
1 x Laser DMG 37 131,624 KM ROF 40

This plus the STO being their only real long range beam weaponary. 

STO had long range weapons firing 16 shots with 37 DMG each.   ROF I never calculated as does not show on intel page. 


Now I decided I did not want to damage the surface so my clear target was the Wodens.   As I approached the Planet under missile and beam fire the CL III started to drop like flies.   The enemy started to move away from the planet.   At this point I let the Panthers with their faster speeds move ahead of the capitals and close the range.   8 Panthers die while closing the distance.   Their first volley from 50km on the wodur 1 does a little armour damage and no penetration

Stage 5 - Roughly 100km from the planet the gunboats which are now at 0 range on the enemy fleet start firing a few volleys at the Wodens class ship.   The panthers take heavy hits but do a good job of distracting the enemy fire from the capitals.   The point defense from the Asgards ships do a good job of shredding the panthers.   This was the discovered point defense:

Asgard x 3 (Max Speed Seen 4887) (Tonnage 18990) 9x Gauss Cannon 39Km ROF 5

Where as the Capital fleet makes a beeline for the enemy fleet (now away from the planet) to help out the Panthers closing and firing at the Wodens.   In this stage 5 or 6 CLs or downed by the continuing size 1 missile fire and beam fire.   The wodens even with only 3 layers of armour prove to be very hardy because of their tonnage and sheer amount of internals they take.   After the 2 of the wodens are damaged and left far from range reducing their effectiveness, I decide I need to deal with the stations missile spam.   The Capitals make a bee line for the planet while the panthers continue to distract the enemy fleet. 

To be honest at this point I thought it was going very badly I hadn't even destroyed one ship but I had lost at least 10 CLs and half the panthers.   and I just wanted to smash the size 1 missile stations to make it easier for the next battle. 

Stage 6 - The Capital Fleet reachs 0km on the planet.   The two Hel Stations are shreded to pieces by the 17 odd CLs.   But this is not without cost.    The two Trolls Stations are discovered to be point defense stations and these also cause heavy damage in return

Troll x 2 (Station) (Tonnage 18900) (Ironic name for something that caused so much damage!!) 17 x Gauss Cannon  (These beasts fired 170 shots every 5 seconds)

STO Point defence also shows its self to fire 90 shots every 5 seconds

5 CLs are lost for the price of all 4 of these stations (in retrospect these stations die very quickly and should of been my first targets because the Hel only has one layer of armour and the Troll had 3 layers).   The defender gunboats still escorting the capital fleet using their point defense at 0km range on the stations help to speed the process up.    The defender gunboats at this stage are relatively untouched.   The Grendel Station is left alone not showing its self as having any weapons.   The Capital Fleet spends the minimum time it can on the planets and flees at best speed to help the panther gunboats in its engagement with the enemy ships.   Also the capital fleet gets its distance from the Planet and its STO forces. 

The Panther gunboats taking heavy losses with only about 15 remaining.   These retreat out of distance of the fleet with the point defense.   In the chaos 2 of the Wodens who are isolated and injured  are moped and swarmed by the panthers.   This is the first ship destruction for the enemy!!

Stage 7

The CL  Capital fleet now with only one Wodens left to fight engages it at point blank range.   The panthers keep their distance from the point defense and fire from 50km.   This reduces the damage they cause to papercuts but protects them from the point defense.   The capital fleet takes further losses at this stage down to about 8 cruisers. 

Finally the Withdrawal. 

With the only ranged weaponry being the Tyr class ships with its 30 missile launchers.   The Capital and gunboat fleets decides to withdraw towards home at a speed identical to their ships from a distance of 50km while firing at them.   After some time of papercut firing the Tyr is downed (during this time the Tyr keeps up its volleys all the way to end taking a few more cruisers down).   With the remaining ships only having point defense the fleet slowly paper cuts them down one by one from outside their range while retreating home.   The enemy fleet chases my fleets far outside of the range of the STO forces. 

With the battle concluded the only remaining ships of the enemy are as follow
All STO forces
1x Grendel Station

My forces remaining:
5x CL III
8x Panther II
6x Defender III


So in conclusion that was fun but ultimately very messy and costly.   Many details have been left out.   Screenshots to show the carnage left afterwards to come shortly.   The panthers were very effective for their weight in tonnage and the defenders deadly. 

« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 10:20:43 AM by nebbish »
 
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Offline Caesar

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Re: Post Report - First Spoiler Enounter for me
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2021, 11:34:39 AM »
Very cool battle! I'm going to tackle the new precursors for the first time soon as well. I've decided to try and lure some of their ships away, then pummel them with missile fighter runs from a carrier at safe distance. I hope I can get through their point defense.
 

Offline captainwolfer

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Re: Post Report - First Spoiler Enounter for me
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2021, 04:38:30 PM »
Code: [Select]
CL III class Light Cruiser      19,999 tons       468 Crew       2,910.  1 BP       TCS 400    TH 2,734    EM 0
6836 km/s      Armour 7-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 138      Sensors 12/12/0/0      DCR 7      PPV 85.  2
Maint Life 4.  56 Years     MSP 7,036    AFR 457%    IFR 6.  3%    1YR 550    5YR 8,255    Max Repair 273.  44 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Morale Check Required   

Naval - Papathanassiou-Militis Ion Drive  EP546.  88 (5)    Power 2734.  4    Fuel Use 153.  74%    Signature 546.  88    Explosion 17%
Fuel Capacity 1,200,000 Litres    Range 7 billion km (11 days at full power)

Butler & Robertson Armaments 20 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (7)    Range 100,000km     TS: 6,836 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 25       
Lawrence-Osborne Quad Barnes & Bond Armaments Company Gauss Cannon R100-33.  00 Turret (3x8)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Lucas-Wall Sensor Systems Beam Fire Control R144-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 38 31
Point Defense - Mccarthy & Weston Beam Fire Control R12-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 12,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
North & Ford Pebble Bed Reactor R26 (1)     Total Power Output 25.  6    Exp 5%

Ship Sensor - Birch & Talbot Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor AS37-R100 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 37m km    Resolution 100
Missile Sensor - Birch & Talbot Sensor Systems Active Search Sensor AS7-R1 (1)     GPS 40     Range 8m km    MCR 718.  1k km    Resolution 1
Bolton Electronics Industries Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.  4m km
Dobson-Bishop EM Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.  4m km

ECCM-1 (2)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Defender II class Gunboat      1,000 tons       40 Crew       202.  3 BP       TCS 20    TH 225    EM 0
11253 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 7      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 4
Maint Life 1.  46 Years     MSP 72    AFR 80%    IFR 1.  1%    1YR 38    5YR 563    Max Repair 112.  5 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 15 days    Morale Check Required   

Gunboat - Sieradzki-Szafraniec Marine Ion Drive  EP225.  00 (1)    Power 225    Fuel Use 357.  77%    Signature 225    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 51,000 Litres    Range 2.  57 billion km (63 hours at full power)

Barnes & Bond Armaments Company Gauss Cannon R100-33.  00 (2x2)    Range 10,000km     TS: 11,253 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 33.  00%     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Gunboat - Fox Sensor Systems Beam Fire Control R72-TS7200 (1)     Max Range: 72,000 km   TS: 7,200 km/s     86 72 58 44 31 17 3 0 0 0
Manning Thrust Pebble Bed Reactor R2 (1)     Total Power Output 2    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
I'm assuming you are using plasma cannons because they are cheap and you barely have any laser tech. I would still recommend getting lasers when possible, because plasma is not very good in most cases compared to other weapons, at least in my opinion.

Your point defense is not well optimized. Basically, every gauss cannon on your cruisers will never have better than a 5% chance to hit, due to your point defense fire control stats.
1. Base accuracy of beam fire is determined by the following equation (1-Target range / Beam fire control Range) * (Tracking speed / Target Speed) <-- (Caps at 1).
- As such, since your cruiser PD fire control has a max range of 12,000 km, but final defensive fire happens at 10,000 km, so your max hit chance would be about 16.7%, but this is then multiplied by 1/3 since your Gauss cannons are 1/3 their normal size, leaving you with a max hit chance of 5.5% (which will only happen if targets are at "point blank" range and slower than tracking speed)
2. Additionally, your turrets have a targeting speed of 20,000 but your fire control has a targeting speed of 12,000. Since the lower of the two targeting speeds is used, the turrets are only getting an effective tracking speed of 12,000. This also applies to your defender Gunboats, since they have a turret tracking speed of 11,000 but fire control speed is only 7,200.

So, if you were able to give your PD fire controls a range of 48,000 km, and a 12,000 tracking speed, then your cruisers and Defenders would have shot down about 32 of the size 1 missiles per volley (which were AMMs being used offensively)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 04:48:34 PM by captainwolfer »
 
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Offline nebbish (OP)

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Re: Post Report - First Spoiler Enounter for me
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2021, 10:08:10 AM »
Only just got round to continuing this game again, doesn't time fly!

Thanks for the tips

1. 
I thought I was saving space by using the shorter fire control range but I was actually messing up my Gauss PD.    >:(

2. 
Nicely spotted as regards the targeting speed that was a mistake.   That is why I shouldn't design my core ships late at night when I am so tired   ::)

Anyway my next step in this game will be to try land some ground troops on the planet.   Lets see how that goes!
 

Offline captainwolfer

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Re: Post Report - First Spoiler Enounter for me
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2021, 12:57:37 PM »
Only just got round to continuing this game again, doesn't time fly!

Thanks for the tips

1. 
I thought I was saving space by using the shorter fire control range but I was actually messing up my Gauss PD.    >:(

2. 
Nicely spotted as regards the targeting speed that was a mistake.   That is why I shouldn't design my core ships late at night when I am so tired   ::)

Anyway my next step in this game will be to try land some ground troops on the planet.   Lets see how that goes!
I can give a list of common mistakes that are made with ground combat if you want. There are several things that I've noticed multiple people get tripped up by when attempting ground combat.
 

 

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