Author Topic: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread  (Read 66450 times)

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

  • Aurora Designer
  • Star Marshal
  • S
  • Posts: 11729
  • Thanked: 20681 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2023, 05:38:26 AM »
Why not leave area fire in for those of us that use it from time to time... I mean it would not hurt the game balance in any way and the mechanic is already there?

In my multi-faction games I often intercepted long range slow mirv missiles with beam ships/FAC or fighters... that will not even be possible anymore as you can't hit a missile unless it is about to strike something unless you use an AMM. I really think you should be able to fire on a missile even if it is far away from striking anything with beam weapons.

I think the type of ships suitable for area defence would probably be better on ranged defence, once I add laser warheads, but I agree there is no harm in allowing the choice. Also, I think people are getting confused between area and ranged defence, so clearer to have both. I'll edit the post.
 

Offline Iceranger

  • Registered
  • Commander
  • *********
  • I
  • Posts: 391
  • Thanked: 230 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2023, 11:50:39 AM »
Hi Steve,

For the Active Terminal Guidance, does the to-hit chance bonus applied additively or multiplicatively? I.e., is it CTH + 20% or CTH * 1.2 for the first tech tier? If the former, is it applied before or after other bonuses?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 11:52:41 AM by Iceranger »
 

Offline King-Salomon

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • Posts: 153
  • Thanked: 38 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2023, 12:01:19 PM »
will a clocking device reduce the hit chance bonus of the ATG?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

  • Aurora Designer
  • Star Marshal
  • S
  • Posts: 11729
  • Thanked: 20681 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2023, 12:02:07 PM »
Hi Steve,

For the Active Terminal Guidance, does the to-hit chance bonus applied additively or multiplicatively? I.e., is it CTH + 20% or CTH * 1.2 for the first tech tier? If the former, is it applied before or after other bonuses?

The latter. CTH * 1.2.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

  • Aurora Designer
  • Star Marshal
  • S
  • Posts: 11729
  • Thanked: 20681 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2023, 12:03:56 PM »
will a clocking device reduce the hit chance bonus of the ATG?

Cloaking devices have no effect on chances to hit for any weapons. They are just a way to reduce a ship's cross-section for detection purposes.
 

Offline Nori

  • Bug Moderators
  • Lt. Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Thanked: 42 times
  • Discord Username: Nori Silverrage
  • Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter : Support the forums with a Bronze subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2023, 12:12:53 PM »
Those two systems seem really nice for missile viability. Assuming you can combine both, it means you can have a really good chance to hit if you get past PD making missiles more efficient.
 

Offline Iceranger

  • Registered
  • Commander
  • *********
  • I
  • Posts: 391
  • Thanked: 230 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2023, 12:45:19 PM »
Those two systems seem really nice for missile viability. Assuming you can combine both, it means you can have a really good chance to hit if you get past PD making missiles more efficient.

Indeed, they will be very nice additions to large missiles. However, my concern is the part that it is much more difficult to get a large enough salvo with large missiles to pass PD in the first place. Yes, E-war helps (only when the defender doesn't have them), and the stand-off warhead being discussed helps (by lowering PD hit chance while also lowering damage inflicted by the missile), but it is still much easier just to mass box launcher spam smaller missiles to hit the critical mass to overwhelm the PD.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 01:29:22 PM by Iceranger »
 

Offline Nori

  • Bug Moderators
  • Lt. Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Thanked: 42 times
  • Discord Username: Nori Silverrage
  • Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter : Support the forums with a Bronze subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2023, 02:09:07 PM »
Yeah I agree. Don't really know how it could be changed though. There is a huge strategic cost to using missiles because you have to build and pay for them plus the logistics of it, but you get much better engagement range... At the end of the day it always feels like a all or nothing which is a bummer.
 

Offline Droll

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • D
  • Posts: 1712
  • Thanked: 602 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2023, 05:19:06 PM »
I mean one way to get around the "missiles need logistics" problem is to go hog wild and make everything need logistics. Projectile weapons use ammo and small amounts of reactor power, energy weapons don't use ammo but loads of reactor power. Then have reactors need reactor fuel in addition to the propellant that engines use so that even energy weapons now need some sort of logistics requirement.

Or keep it simple and make MSP more of a factor, people often forget that if you don't have maintenance turned off, those weapons failures are meant to actually simulate the logistics of the beam weapons, just so happens that supplying MSP is trivial compared to missile logistics especially since you have to make MSP for ship maintenance anyways.

The advantange of the complex route is that gauss and railguns can now have an "ammo designer", which would probably be the existing missile designer but generalized. It also means that those weapons would also incur the same design costs as missiles such as magazines and whatnot (whereas the "magazine" cost of an energy weapon is the massive reactor taking all the internal space).

On a tangential note I wish weapons failures and ship maintenance were different toggles in game settings. I don't enjoy the whole overhaul aspect and micromanagement but would like my beam weapons to still have that logistics burden on them.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 05:24:02 PM by Droll »
 

Offline EvadingHostileFleets

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • E
  • Posts: 17
  • Thanked: 13 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #129 on: February 25, 2023, 03:00:36 AM »
Am I correct that "retargeting capability" is not actually retargeting, and overkill salvos still go poof unless missile bears active sensor?
 

Offline kilo

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • k
  • Posts: 249
  • Thanked: 46 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #130 on: February 25, 2023, 04:36:44 AM »
I mean one way to get around the "missiles need logistics" problem is to go hog wild and make everything need logistics. Projectile weapons use ammo and small amounts of reactor power, energy weapons don't use ammo but loads of reactor power. Then have reactors need reactor fuel in addition to the propellant that engines use so that even energy weapons now need some sort of logistics requirement.

Or keep it simple and make MSP more of a factor, people often forget that if you don't have maintenance turned off, those weapons failures are meant to actually simulate the logistics of the beam weapons, just so happens that supplying MSP is trivial compared to missile logistics especially since you have to make MSP for ship maintenance anyways.

The advantange of the complex route is that gauss and railguns can now have an "ammo designer", which would probably be the existing missile designer but generalized. It also means that those weapons would also incur the same design costs as missiles such as magazines and whatnot (whereas the "magazine" cost of an energy weapon is the massive reactor taking all the internal space).

On a tangential note I wish weapons failures and ship maintenance were different toggles in game settings. I don't enjoy the whole overhaul aspect and micromanagement but would like my beam weapons to still have that logistics burden on them.

So you would like to have some sort of fuel bunker for power plants? What makes the logistics for war ships so easy is not that fact that there is no logistics, but that MSPs are completely generic. Maybe we need tritanium fuel pellets for the generators to satisfy your demand. Like specialized fuel pellets for every reactor type.
Ammunition for beam weapons is a relatively small issue, as railgun slugs should be pretty simple to make and lightweight. A 10 cm diameter ball of tungsten is just like 10 kg. So you would get 250 of those for each size 1 missile.
 

Offline kilo

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • k
  • Posts: 249
  • Thanked: 46 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #131 on: February 25, 2023, 04:45:09 AM »
Am I correct that "retargeting capability" is not actually retargeting, and overkill salvos still go poof unless missile bears active sensor?

That is a very good question. In VB6 you could fire all missile salvos of your fleet into a single ship if the missiles had sensors. The ship would be intercepted by one salvo after another until it was destroyed and the remaining salvos would pick different targets within the area. In C# all salvos intercepting the ship within the same increment would be spent and those arriving later would intercept a different vessel. This made a huge difference in missile combat. I do hope that retargeting does not change that as missiles would become significantly more powerful. My head lore was that these missiles do not miss, but either impact a dead ship or get destroyed in the exploding ship's shrapnel.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

  • Aurora Designer
  • Star Marshal
  • S
  • Posts: 11729
  • Thanked: 20681 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #132 on: February 25, 2023, 06:59:07 AM »
Am I correct that "retargeting capability" is not actually retargeting, and overkill salvos still go poof unless missile bears active sensor?

Yes, that's correct. Maybe I need a better name :)
 
The following users thanked this post: Warer

Offline King-Salomon

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • Posts: 153
  • Thanked: 38 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #133 on: February 25, 2023, 12:47:12 PM »
a pretty damm stupid question - and sorry for asking but...

Steve, do you still have the codebase of your 2.2.0 Aurora without the missle changes? And could you release this as 2.2.0 and the missle changes as 2.3.0?

I really like the missle changes but I would think that with propper playtesting of the new systems, 2.2.0 will be delayed for 3-6 month at least - so maybe - if possible - it would be a good idea to bring the 2.2.0 live with the bugfixes and changes so far (before the missle stuff

if it is not possible, c'est la vie .. but I thought it would be worth asking
 

Offline Zap0

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 410
  • Thanked: 509 times
Re: v2.2.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #134 on: February 25, 2023, 12:54:46 PM »
Am I correct that "retargeting capability" is not actually retargeting, and overkill salvos still go poof unless missile bears active sensor?

Yes, that's correct. Maybe I need a better name :)

Rehoming?