Author Topic: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0  (Read 103270 times)

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Offline dth11

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #795 on: December 27, 2024, 01:22:10 PM »
Please don't take this as a flippant answer, but you can already make extensive notes outside of the software. I use Word and Excel, but even Notepad is enough, or pen and paper. I have limited programming time so it wouldn't be a high priority to replicate note-taking, apart from maybe adding a free text tab to fleets. A more involved, automated system would involve a considerable amount of work because of the variety of things that can happen in the game, especially with different context in many cases. It isn't something that has been requested before.

The game already has events to tell you when things finish, or when you have forgotten something like allocating research labs. You can read back through all the past events. You can also have your fleets send you a message when they arrive somewhere, reminding you of why you sent them. I know some people even create fake fleets, or 'message bots', to use the remind messages on a regular basis. It also helps to get into a regular routine - checking terraforming fleets, checking survey fleets, checking build queues, mining output, etc..

For the sentry buoys specifically, you can check where they are deployed on the Galactic Map, using the Missiles tab (assuming that is pre v2.6). I use that all the time to plan buoy placement.

It's your game, not mine, but all the solutions that you mentioned are symptoms of problems that the game has. These are hacks and workarounds that allow some players to overcome issues (like forgetting stuff) with some additional manual work. If you see players making bot fleets just to remember to do something, then perhaps they need better tools in the game so that they don't have to resort to hacks or create external resources like Excel sheets to keep track of what were they doing and what they plan to do. In the end, it's an additional stuff that you have to do, and is quite costly in terms of time, that you have to pay before you even start the new game. That's of course on top of having to design all the required ships and installations, what already takes a lot. Then you have to maintain those sheets, the more complex they are, the more time you have to spend maintaining them.

The game is great, don't get me wrong, but at some point it should start moving towards automation of things instead of relying on the player to do everything manually. Ideally you shouldn't have to check events log all the time just to make sure you didn't miss anything, because things should work when you set them up and only break if there was a third party introduced into the mix. Of course there are people who don't mind the hard work, but I don't think there are many of them. I'm not 100% sure that automated objectives would solve anything, maybe it's not such a great idea after all, who knows, but the fact that it wasn't requested before is not very surprising. Complex games tend to attract people who like them (I know, impossible:D) and these people take pride in overcoming design flaws that make games unplayable for the general public. I mean, who is going to complain about lack of organisational tools in the game that forces to you to select a target for every missile in the fleet of 20 ships, each capable to deploy more than a hundred at once. It seems like such a non issue in comparison.

I won't bother you with this anymore, just keep in mind that when players start using in game systems in a weird way, it's because they are missing something that wouldn't force them to jump through all those hoops to do something simple. Just because I can spend 10 minutes setting up fake fleets to remember about something in 20 minutes and do it again for 5 other things, doesn't mean it's fun and I'll be able to keep on top of it forever. Maybe instead, I just need a reminder function with simple text input that I can set up with 2 clicks and focus on something else. Or maybe I need something else, like an action that triggers at certain condition. It's hard to say without knowing specific cases, but making notes/using external software to deal with the game shouldn't be a go to answer because it will overload everyone at some point, be it sooner or later. Also, for every player that will use word/excel/set up fake fleets, there will always probably be 10 or more other players just will just bounce back from the game, never to return, not giving it a chance.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2024, 01:49:30 PM by dth11 »
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #796 on: December 27, 2024, 03:00:41 PM »
Please don't take this as a flippant answer, but you can already make extensive notes outside of the software. I use Word and Excel, but even Notepad is enough, or pen and paper. I have limited programming time so it wouldn't be a high priority to replicate note-taking, apart from maybe adding a free text tab to fleets. A more involved, automated system would involve a considerable amount of work because of the variety of things that can happen in the game, especially with different context in many cases. It isn't something that has been requested before.

The game already has events to tell you when things finish, or when you have forgotten something like allocating research labs. You can read back through all the past events. You can also have your fleets send you a message when they arrive somewhere, reminding you of why you sent them. I know some people even create fake fleets, or 'message bots', to use the remind messages on a regular basis. It also helps to get into a regular routine - checking terraforming fleets, checking survey fleets, checking build queues, mining output, etc..

For the sentry buoys specifically, you can check where they are deployed on the Galactic Map, using the Missiles tab (assuming that is pre v2.6). I use that all the time to plan buoy placement.

It's your game, not mine, but all the solutions that you mentioned are symptoms of problems that the game has. These are hacks and workarounds that allow some players to overcome issues (like forgetting stuff) with some additional manual work. If you see players making bot fleets just to remember to do something, then perhaps they need better tools in the game so that they don't have to resort to hacks or create external resources like Excel sheets to keep track of what were they doing and what they plan to do. In the end, it's an additional stuff that you have to do, and is quite costly in terms of time, that you have to pay before you even start the new game. That's of course on top of having to design all the required ships and installations, what already takes a lot. Then you have to maintain those sheets, the more complex they are, the more time you have to spend maintaining them.

The game is great, don't get me wrong, but at some point it should start moving towards automation of things instead of relying on the player to do everything manually. Ideally you shouldn't have to check events log all the time just to make sure you didn't miss anything, because things should work when you set them up and only break if there was a third party introduced into the mix. Of course there are people who don't mind the hard work, but I don't think there are many of them. I'm not 100% sure that automated objectives would solve anything, maybe it's not such a great idea after all, who knows, but the fact that it wasn't requested before is not very surprising. Complex games tend to attract people who like them (I know, impossible:D) and these people take pride in overcoming design flaws that make games unplayable for the general public. I mean, who is going to complain about lack of organisational tools in the game that forces to you to select a target for every missile in the fleet of 20 ships, each capable to deploy more than a hundred at once. It seems like such a non issue in comparison.

I won't bother you with this anymore, just keep in mind that when players start using in game systems in a weird way, it's because they are missing something that wouldn't force them to jump through all those hoops to do something simple. Just because I can spend 10 minutes setting up fake fleets to remember about something in 20 minutes and do it again for 5 other things, doesn't mean it's fun and I'll be able to keep on top of it forever. Maybe instead, I just need a reminder function with simple text input that I can set up with 2 clicks and focus on something else. Or maybe I need something else, like an action that triggers at certain condition. It's hard to say without knowing specific cases, but making notes/using external software to deal with the game shouldn't be a go to answer because it will overload everyone at some point, be it sooner or later. Also, for every player that will use word/excel/set up fake fleets, there will always probably be 10 or more other players just will just bounce back from the game, never to return, not giving it a chance.

I am sure there are many ways to improve Aurora and there are always many player suggestions.

However, this is a game I code as a hobby in my spare time and give away for free. Therefore, when looking at a suggestion, I have to consider a few different factors (and those are not the same as a commercial game).
  • Most importantly, will this suggestion improve my own enjoyment of Aurora? As I am doing this for fun, not money, I am not going to spend a lot of time coding something I would never use. Having said that, if it is something that is easy to add and a common request, then I'll probably add it anyway, even if I might not use it.
  • Next is how much effort is required vs how much incremental game play (interesting decisions) is added, or how much QoL is improved vs existing options.
  • Then, due to the limited time for coding, I look at that suggestion vs all the other suggestions that I could spend time on. Which ones will add the most incremental value for the least amount of work, or are so good that I am happy to invest a lot of time? This includes how much enthusiasm I have personally for a change, as greater motivation usually means more time invested.
  • How many people play Aurora is not a significant factor in my decisions. If my goal was lots of players, I would have designed a very different game. Aurora is enjoyed by a very niche group of people, actually a larger group than I expected, who want a different game than is commercially available.
So when I look at your suggestion with the above context, it is a lot of work for something I don't really need (because it doesn't add much to easily available alternatives) and that other people haven't requested (probably for the same reason). Even if that were not true, there are many other suggestions that would add a lot to the game and to my own enjoyment that require equal or less effort on my part.

I am happy to accept it is important to you and that without that functionality, you (and perhaps other people) might not play the game. However, to persuade someone (in Aurora and in real life) to do something for you, its always best to explain why it would benefit them, rather than you. Also, as part of that effort, its good to understand that the priorities of your target audience might not match your own.
 
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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #797 on: December 27, 2024, 06:18:24 PM »
On the galactic map you can display the presence of fleets and can choose all fleets and/or warships. Would it be possible to filter this by ship class? That way we can see at a glance on the galactic map where our grav survey ships are, or the mine layers or whatever. There appears to be enough space for another tab to implement this. It would immensely facilitate fleet management.

Apologies if its already present - please tell me how!

I like this idea very much, but I'd rather have it work by Admin Command and not by class. Your survey ships are likely to be in the same NAC, so it'd work similarly for them, but you'd also be able to tell where all your naval forces in the sector's NAC are, or landing craft, or salvagers, or anything else, even if you're running numerous classes in each hull type. This woud invaluable for those large, multi-system military operations.

Also, if class-based ship images are going to happen one day, then maybe we can get class-based icons on the galaxy map too, which would make things far easier to read.

I've added both the above ideas for v2.6
https://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg172561#msg172561
 
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Offline Ghostly

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #798 on: December 28, 2024, 05:56:50 AM »
I've added both the above ideas for v2.6
https://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg172561#msg172561

Thank you, this is amazing! Another thought that occured to me a bit too late is that there could be a benefit to filtering by Hull Type too, since one can often end up dealing with different generations of classes that serve the same purpose, but on the other hand, this would still only display either dropships or troop transports, or either salvage ships or salvage platforms, so maybe there's not much point to it. All ships of interest in the same area should be sharing a NAC anyway.
 

Offline KriegsMeister

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #799 on: December 28, 2024, 07:13:23 AM »
Coul you add a "button" to the shipicon on the galaxy map that would pop up a window with the list of all hulls in the system?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #800 on: December 28, 2024, 07:34:13 AM »
Coul you add a "button" to the shipicon on the galaxy map that would pop up a window with the list of all hulls in the system?

If you have the Naval Forces tab selected on the sidebar, clicking on a system will list all the forces in that system, including fleets, ships, parent admin commands, etc.
 
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Offline Louella

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #801 on: December 28, 2024, 07:34:20 PM »
A thing for the alien intel screen.

"Known Ordnance" - a list of known missile types used by that alien race.

 
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Offline skoormit

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #802 on: December 29, 2024, 08:27:39 AM »
On the Governor tab of the Econ window, we have a "No Assignment" option (alongside automated and manual).
When that option is selected, the colony does not appear in the list of possible assignments for civilian administrators.
This feature is very useful--it allows us to keep that assignment list from becoming cluttered with tiny colonies that we don't care to assign governors for.

Can we get a similar option for Naval Admin Commands?
I have a lot of NACs that I use only for grouping similar fleets in the Naval Org window.
For these NACs, I don't care about bonuses, so I will never assign them a commander.
It would be nice if they could be suppressed from the assignment list (so I only see the one or two available NACs I am concerned with finding a replacement for at a given point in time).
 

Offline skoormit

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #803 on: December 30, 2024, 09:01:01 AM »
We receive messages from NPRs regarding changes in diplomatic status (considering us neutral/friendly, granting  trade access, etc).

It would be useful if an interrupt event occurred whenever an NPR's diplomacy rating with us passes a threshold that opens new diplomatic treaties that we can assign to them (trade, tech, etc).
Currently, we must periodically check the foreign relations window to see if new options are available.
 
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Offline paolot

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #804 on: December 30, 2024, 01:53:02 PM »
In the System View window, in the dropdown menu from where a system can be chosen (upper row of the window), would it be possible to highlight the ones with a population enstablished?
Just to easily individuate the systems we already own.
 
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Offline Louella

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #805 on: December 30, 2024, 03:03:06 PM »
In the System View window, in the dropdown menu from where a system can be chosen (upper row of the window), would it be possible to highlight the ones with a population enstablished?
Just to easily individuate the systems we already own.

like how they're highlighted in the fleet movement window ?

 
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Offline paolot

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #806 on: December 30, 2024, 05:40:56 PM »
Quote
like how they're highlighted in the fleet movement window ?

Yes! Good point!
Thank you!
I thought about the inhabited systems only; with your suggestion, we could see also the claimed colonies.
 

Offline db48x

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #807 on: December 30, 2024, 08:39:50 PM »
- Ingame goals/objectives
Add a simple panel, that will list all the objectives and give an ability to create new ones and mark old ones as complete/remove them. Something like a TODO list for a players, to keep track of their progress.
Every objective would have: name, description, optional attached fleet, status (debatable, but in theory would allow players to understand that they already started it). There could be more, like attaching specific character for flavor reasons, but these are bare minimum required to operate and I would be happy even if we finished this here, but...

You say “simple”, but I am afraid that you grossly underestimate the amount of work your suggestion really entails. There are commercial TODO apps that are supported by entire teams of developers across years of development. There are open source TODO apps that have existed for decades and have dozens or hundreds of independent contributors. To take just one example, org-mode is over 21 years old and has over 150,000 lines of code. And it has the advantage of being embedded inside of Emacs, so it doesn’t have to implement any kind of text editing; it gets all of that for free.

It only takes a little bit of organization to keep notes outside of Aurora. I am not very good at it myself, but you have no doubt read some of Steve’s after–action reports. I believe he writes those as he plays the game, rather than summarizing the action after the fact. He need only reread the last few paragraphs of his report to remind himself of the most recent events. There are a number of curious features of the game that exist entirely so that he can paste useful information into these reports. Things like the order of battle window, that lists the ships in the current sector. Or there’s that button that pops up a window containing a list of all the minerals on all the bodies in the current system; I forget its name. By occasionally including these in his reports, he can easily reconstruct the state of his fleets at different points in the game.

I’d say that it is a very good idea for players to keep notes and records of their games, but far more flexible and beneficial to the player to use an external application that they are already familiar with rather than to try to reproduce those applications inside of Aurora.
 
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Offline xenoscepter

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #808 on: December 30, 2024, 11:32:47 PM »
I have at one point suggested / asked for a simple in game textbox to keep notes on. I find it a bit annoying to flip back and forth between notepad and aurora.

But that's just a window focus thing, and I am on a single monitor. So... meh.
 

Offline paolot

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #809 on: December 31, 2024, 12:28:23 PM »
In the Galactic Map, is it possible to show the name of the selected system in these tabs: Overview, Naval Forces, Contacts, and Miscellaneous?
Often, you move the map to observe various locations, or you return to it after a while, and it's not at once clear which system is selected.

Happy new year to all of you and to your dear ones! 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2024, 12:32:24 PM by paolot »