Author Topic: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0  (Read 252008 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #870 on: March 20, 2025, 12:45:47 PM »
Looking at the current Russian-Ukrainian war I though what about we add a new building, power plants:

1) They could be of a different type with different energy output.
2) This addition would require a rework of existent building to add energy requirement to each of them.
3) Connected to previous points, I would like to have the possibility to missile-target specific building on the planet surface, it would add a lot of tactical to space bombardment and the AI should also be instructed to seek building bombardment (power plant preferred) in some cases to undermine the enemy logistic before invasion.

I have thought about some form of colony power system for a while. It would become a new type of resource provided by a variety of sources and a lack of power would function in a similar way to a lack of workers. Nuclear power stations would be the standard, with options for Hydropower on planets with mountains and a decent hydrosphere, geothermal on planets with high tectonics, etc. Maybe even solar collector stations that beam power from closer to the star.

The main question is whether the addition of this extra layer would add interesting decisions or just extra colony management.
 
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #871 on: March 20, 2025, 01:06:18 PM »
Looking at the current Russian-Ukrainian war I though what about we add a new building, power plants:

1) They could be of a different type with different energy output.
2) This addition would require a rework of existent building to add energy requirement to each of them.
3) Connected to previous points, I would like to have the possibility to missile-target specific building on the planet surface, it would add a lot of tactical to space bombardment and the AI should also be instructed to seek building bombardment (power plant preferred) in some cases to undermine the enemy logistic before invasion.

I have thought about some form of colony power system for a while. It would become a new type of resource provided by a variety of sources and a lack of power would function in a similar way to a lack of workers. Nuclear power stations would be the standard, with options for Hydropower on planets with mountains and a decent hydrosphere, geothermal on planets with high tectonics, etc. Maybe even solar collector stations that beam power from closer to the star.

The main question is whether the addition of this extra layer would add interesting decisions or just extra colony management.

That's why I added the third point, if you manage to implement an AI capable to decide when a strategic bombardment to power plants (or other buildings) is necessary (and capable to carry it) and put the other players in a logistical difficulty, then the whole story change and it won't be just another colony building. I imagine also that STOs will gain much more importance.
 

Offline LuuBluum

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #872 on: March 20, 2025, 01:32:44 PM »
And maybe at that point it'd sufficiently motivate a rework of ground support fighters as well. "Strategic bombing targets" and whatnot.
 

Offline JustAnotherDude

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #873 on: March 20, 2025, 07:20:00 PM »
I think that a basic issue with Aurora invasions is that it's very one note, in that there are really only three things you can attack on a colony: it's population, it's ground troops and its shipyards. Shipyards are sort of separate issue because they can be attacked from space or by STOs. The electricity idea is interesting because it could offer a way to attrit a colony's ability to function and defend itself from the ground (or air!) without having to land troops or kill a couple tens of millions of people.

Maybe a mechanic where planets have some kind of ground unit capacity that can be increased by relatively inexpensive "transport infrastructure," or "garrison infrastructure," which requires electricity. When the electricity shuts off, troops over that cap experience "disorganization" or whatever other term is most appropriate, which makes them less effective. This would both make stacking huge ground forces on a planet by both players and NPRs less practical and give a vector of attack that isn't just spending more minerals then the other guy, which is essentially the current ground dynamic (with the notable exception of the terrain bonuses, the recent changes to which are really nice.)

If incorporated, as others say, into a CAS fighter rework that would allow selecting specific installation types to target, this could create some very interesting situations. Say you have 3 NPRs you're neighboring. Two are at war with you and another is likely to join in. A raid using light carriers on the third would make a lot of sense in this situation, the space superiority fighters destroying shipyards and isolated warships and your atmospheric craft crippling the electrical infrastructure, which hampers the NPR's ability to rebuild. You wouldn't have to commit huge amounts of ground troops or drop a couple hundred nukes and make it not worth conquering later.  Not only that, but with the ability to target installation types you could also blow up ground force construction facilities to stop a buildup, or the mines on a mining colony, so on and so forth.  The decision space increases a lot.

I also think that having multiple types of electricity sources with different use-cases and drawbacks, upkeep requirements etc would be really interesting on it's own merits, and a solid opportunity to use the existing reactor techs more then they currently are. Making the decision between, say, a sorium power plant that needs minerals but is cheap as opposed to a fusion reactor or solar arrays with less upkeep seems like it could be a relatively simple but compelling addition.

P.S, while on the subject of ground combat I think heavy and long range artillery should degrade the fortification rating of any unit they hit. Would give them a much stronger use case.
 
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Offline xenoscepter

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #874 on: March 20, 2025, 07:52:48 PM »
I would like the option to leave some Ground Unit modules empty. Everything Medium and up can take up to two modules, but I'd like to have the option to leave one or more empty.
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #875 on: March 20, 2025, 09:42:28 PM »
I would like the option to leave some Ground Unit modules empty. Everything Medium and up can take up to two modules, but I'd like to have the option to leave one or more empty.

Seconded for roleplay purposes.

This is an easy enough DB change to add to your homegrown mod, simply adding a component that does and weighs nothing should work.
 

Offline KriegsMeister

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #876 on: March 20, 2025, 11:17:23 PM »
Some other ideas for the implementation of powerplants

- Both installations and population should require powerplants. Installations are kinda given, but population adds another layer of depth on growing your numbers besides just CC/infrastructure requirements. Not having enough power could be another factor in raising unrest.
- They could be a significant wealth sink, as it stands now once you get into the mid game with a significant number of Financial Centers and profitable civilian transports you practically have infinite wealth. Give power stations a reasonable upkeep cost and now you'll have to decide if you can manage to operate another 1000 mines/factories if you cant afford to build enough power plants to keep those facilities lights on. Can even go deeper into the wealth department by adding more influence on raising and lowering taxes on populations if need be at the risk of more unrest.
- Could introduce Planetary Shield installations that require crap tons of power.
- Different kinds of power sources that could give dynamic levels of power based on the planetary conditions. Solar output depends on star type and proximity, solar arrays would be more efficient on Mercury rather than Pluto, or around an A-class star rather than an M-class. Geothermal would be dependent on tectonics with maybe a possible multiplier/penalty for tidal friction if the body is/has a moon or tidally locked. Wind gets more efficient with thicker atmospheres and is useless without one. Bio/Fossil fuels that are more efficient with different planetary terrains, forests jungles and swamps being more productive over chaparral or prairie.
- You shouldn't be able to ship power from colony to colony, each individual planet/moon would require developing its own internal power infrastructure. However they don't need to have their own internal wealth to operate the power stations, utilizing the entire race funds. The efficiency of each power source on a given body should be displayed on the system window and colony tab to aid planning and decision making.
 

Offline kks

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #877 on: March 21, 2025, 02:40:08 AM »
You could assume that power generation is integrated in the colonies installations like construction plants or infrastructure. This kind of makes sense as the power production is propably not concentrated in a few places and could be abstracted into the more relevant installations (for game purposes).

Then you could add a new order for air wings to target specific industries/targets (Infrastructure, Fabrication, Logistics(currently GU construction facilites), SEAD(?), CAS, etc.). Alternatively it could for example be a dropdown "focus" in the combat window.

That way you can't easily disable a whole colony but you can target specific enemy capabilties you want to hamper.

This approach also has a few points which imho could buff aircraft: You can use them in a more strategic role and more concentrated. Currently, they are just not worth it, because they are much more expensive(building and fielding) than some ground troops and fulfill basically the same role. However, if you can use them to focus on specific enemy targets, they get a new role ground units do not have. Second: They can be used as a concentrated strike force. (Heavy or Medium) AA is currently much cheaper than aircraft, but if you give the attacker the opportunity to concentrate its air strikes it allows them to compensate for that a little bit: The attacker can plan its point of attack while the defender has to spread its defenses to cover all the installations. Maybe heavy AA could provide general air cover but be made more vulnerable to SEAD missions or more expensive. Medium AA batteries could then be assigned to specific installation types the defender deems most valuable. Light AA would probably remain in its role to provide its unit with AA-CAS cover. If you want, you could also differantiate bomber pods into CAS-capable and strategic, the latter which are more resitant against light AA but worse against ground troops?
It also would give fighters/interceptors an advantage, as they can then be used to counter air attacks more flexible.

Edit: Of course, this suggestion is still entirely compatible with the power plant idea, I now see... :p
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 02:52:08 AM by kks »
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #878 on: March 21, 2025, 04:30:13 AM »
Is there a way to do a dummy research project for roleplay purposes? if not, how about a set of dummy research projects that cover the most common number of RPs, that once researched are not removed but remain in the research options to be dummy-researched again.

The idea is to add research of sub-components - as mentioned before for roleplay purposes.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #879 on: March 21, 2025, 05:45:11 AM »
Regarding precise targeting of different installations, there is already a way to identify general and specific installations types using ELINT. So it seems reasonable that more directed targeting could be used against whatever was discovered via ELINT.

One point to consider with the various power-related suggestions, is that if something on those lines is added, it will also be something the AI has to manage.
 

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #880 on: March 21, 2025, 06:01:40 AM »
Regarding precise targeting of different installations, there is already a way to identify general and specific installations types using ELINT. So it seems reasonable that more directed targeting could be used against whatever was discovered via ELINT.

One point to consider with the various power-related suggestions, is that if something on those lines is added, it will also be something the AI has to manage.

Of course the AI should manage it as the human player would do, energy is the base of everything so I guess like every nations in history since the industrial revolution (but even before), the AI should prioritizes the construction of at least sufficient power output to keep its world installations running and every time the power requirement became bigger than the production, another power plant should be put in production.

Easy to say, for sure hard to implement  :)
 

Offline Coleslaw

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #881 on: March 21, 2025, 08:41:15 AM »
What if Infrastructure could be used as a stand-in for things like power plants? As it currently stands, infrastructure is technically entirely unnecessary on colony cost zero planets, but what if every planet had a minimum of 1 colony cost? That way, colonies don’t just grow by themselves into perpetuity, you’ll have to undergo infrastructural projects in order to expand a planet’s capacity  to support people (directly)  and industry (indirectly.) Since this would greatly increase the requirement for infrastructure, you could halve the current infrastructure cost, or replace half of the cost with some other mineral, i.e., mercassium perhaps? In my opinion, this seems like the least “intrusive” way of modeling the whole power suggestion.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 08:42:47 AM by Coleslaw »
 
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Offline JustAnotherDude

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #882 on: March 21, 2025, 09:03:21 AM »
Maybe you could keep it relatively simple, with two types of ground-based electrical (fusion, sorium, plus a weaker conventional) and a single space-based electrical (solar). The A.I starts with enough ground based plants to cover it's requirements on all it's colonies +20% or so, and will always produce or request from other colonies to try to stay above that 20% threshold, or it can add the total power drain of all requested and proudcing facilities on the colonies to it's requirement to avoid inefficiencies. The type of plant it prefers can be random, or even just pick one on a first pass implementation. Colonies would uses solar power only if the power potential per panel is over a certain threshold, with the chance of that happening increasing as the potential goes higher and higher. That seems like it might be relatively painless to make the A.I manage it competently, because you are always building up to a capacity instead of something more abstract.
 

Offline KriegsMeister

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #883 on: March 21, 2025, 09:24:53 AM »
One point to consider with the various power-related suggestions, is that if something on those lines is added, it will also be something the AI has to manage.
I think it might be alright to let the AI cheat a bit here like they do when their ships run out of fuel. They should still attempt to build enough power stations for their colonies but should probably ignore an penalties if they don't have enough facilities, or if they don't have enough wealth to operate them. The player can fix it if/when they conquer the colony.
 

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #884 on: March 21, 2025, 09:30:19 AM »
I do not understand how you guys can play games with AI cheating, especially 4X and strategic games in general, for me it is very frustrating knowing that despite all my efforts the AI can simply stab me from behind because it can do that and me not, what's the sense?

I think that it is always better a limited but fair AI that all these no-sense cheats.