Author Topic: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0  (Read 251947 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #915 on: May 01, 2025, 07:41:27 AM »
In the Intel window, when a ship class is selected, and some ships are marked as destroyed, is it possible to continue to show the systems where those ships were (apart the wreck marks in the galactic map)? I can think to go and salvage them later, and their location is useful to remember of them.
Moreover, if I salvaged some of them, could these ones be marked somehow (let's say, using an asterisk or adding an "(s)" near the ship in the Intel window)? This mark should be valid only for the ships salvaged by me, as I don't know if a NPR did it, so adding a factor of uncertainty in perfoming these operations in systems controlled by an ostile NPR (I need to survey the system in anticipation, before mounting a mission).

Added for v2.6. The 'destroyed' text is moved to the right-hand column and the system of destruction is now included in the centre column. If a particular ship is salvaged by the viewing race, there will be an (s) next to the 'destroyed' text.

Offline David_H_Roarings

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #916 on: May 10, 2025, 09:40:23 AM »
Suggestion on orbital miners: can the orbital miner be made to put the mined minerals into internal cargo holds instead of onto a colony on the body it is mining; and a standing order where if cargo is full unload at a colony with either a cargo station or spaceport?
 

Offline Kristover

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #917 on: May 10, 2025, 11:36:58 AM »
I would like to request the addition of an in game notepad. For those of us who are really into the RP story generation of Aurora, I have always wanted the ability to attach a note to individual ships, commanders, ground formations, and especially colonies so I could add story/details to them to flesh out my world. To a degree I already this by switching windows to word/excel but I find that process to be cumbersome, immersion breaking, and easy to mix up. Having the ability to put notes on entities which seems like it might be an easy thing to do might enhance the enjoyment for those of us who are really into the RP and might also assist others in note keeping.
 
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Offline paolot

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #918 on: May 10, 2025, 11:38:35 AM »
Suggestion on orbital miners: can the orbital miner be made to put the mined minerals into internal cargo holds instead of onto a colony on the body it is mining; and a standing order where if cargo is full unload at a colony with either a cargo station or spaceport?

I think not many players would use the possibility you propose.
It can add another layer of possibility and of role playing; but the way it is now, it is more efficient.
Because the orbital miners can spend their time only mining, and can save extra space for cargo and for an engine.
So, they can be build using less materials and a bit faster, don't need to go to a colony and unload the minerals, and a tug can deploy them near the body to mine.
Even more, cargo ships can anyway go and load minerals directly from the orbit, as the small bodies don't need a cargo shuttle station. But, a mass driver on the body can save cargo ships to go (and save fuel).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2025, 11:40:12 AM by paolot »
 

Offline David_H_Roarings

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #919 on: May 10, 2025, 01:52:04 PM »

I think not many players would use the possibility you propose.
It can add another layer of possibility and of role playing; but the way it is now, it is more efficient.
Because the orbital miners can spend their time only mining, and can save extra space for cargo and for an engine.
So, they can be build using less materials and a bit faster, don't need to go to a colony and unload the minerals, and a tug can deploy them near the body to mine.
Even more, cargo ships can anyway go and load minerals directly from the orbit, as the small bodies don't need a cargo shuttle station. But, a mass driver on the body can save cargo ships to go (and save fuel).

While what I propose may technically be less efficient it would cut out a lot of the micromanagement involved in mining asteroids/small bodies. Maybe having it set up to where if it has the cargo hold it puts it in there but without the cargo hold it drops it on the colony it is orbiting? That way the player has choice of which way they want to do it.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #920 on: May 10, 2025, 02:14:36 PM »
I've never tried this with an OM, but doesn't the Load All Minerals Until Full order basically do this? An OM mines just by being in orbit of a body, so I would think having that order active wouldn't interfere with the mining part of its job.

Combine that with an order to unload at the hub world and then fly back to whichever comet or asteroid it's mining, and either cycle orders or repeat however many times it would take to mine out that body (or mine to low enough levels that accessibility is no longer worth it).
 

Offline David_H_Roarings

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #921 on: May 10, 2025, 02:44:58 PM »
I've never tried this with an OM, but doesn't the Load All Minerals Until Full order basically do this? An OM mines just by being in orbit of a body, so I would think having that order active wouldn't interfere with the mining part of its job.

Combine that with an order to unload at the hub world and then fly back to whichever comet or asteroid it's mining, and either cycle orders or repeat however many times it would take to mine out that body (or mine to low enough levels that accessibility is no longer worth it).

with the standing order 'Move to Asteroid Mineral Source' what I proposed would allow you to set up an orbital miner that automatically does this without having to manually set up the repetitive orders or mark the body as a colony, and doesn't require you to periodically check to make sure they are actually mining something.

Edit: it would also work well with the 'Salvage Nearest Wreak' standing order
« Last Edit: May 10, 2025, 02:49:01 PM by David_H_Roarings »
 

Offline paolot

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #922 on: May 10, 2025, 05:08:25 PM »
While what I propose may technically be less efficient it would cut out a lot of the micromanagement involved in mining asteroids/small bodies.
...

A mass driver (MD) on the body requires no management at all.
You mark the body as a colony 1 time for all. Then send the simplest OMs using a tug.
You bring the MD on the body, and that's all. You only need to recover them (OMs and MDs), and use somewhere else, when minerals are ended.
I can't see any micromanagement.

I'm not saying I don't want your proposal be implemented.
But the work to code it in the game seems to me it could be too long, for the new approaches it could give to the game.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2025, 05:15:37 PM by paolot »
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #923 on: May 10, 2025, 07:02:39 PM »
with the standing order 'Move to Asteroid Mineral Source' what I proposed would allow you to set up an orbital miner that automatically does this without having to manually set up the repetitive orders or mark the body as a colony, and doesn't require you to periodically check to make sure they are actually mining something.

I don't think a standing order for this would be as useful as it sounds. The issue is that automating orbital mining means the miners have to use some logic to select targets. Orbital miners are no use if they ignore useful resources to go pull up 25,000 tons of tritanium, for instance. I think most players would rather assign orbital miners to specific bodies than suffer from random selection, and any logic that is implemented will be sure to satisfy no one (except maybe Steve, but that is a big maybe).

There is also the question of whether this is the type of "micromanagement" that needs to be removed, which I don't think it is. Making decisions about where to send orbital miners is part of the core strategic gameplay of Aurora, so a standing order like this has the downside of removing interesting gameplay for the sake of expedience, which has never been Aurora's design philosophy.

So overall I think having the normal orders which can be repeated or cycled is sufficient as it is, and no change of this type is needed. I can see why some people might want that change, but I don't think that rationale is compelling for Aurora.
 
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Offline David_H_Roarings

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #924 on: May 10, 2025, 08:53:18 PM »

I don't think a standing order for this would be as useful as it sounds. The issue is that automating orbital mining means the miners have to use some logic to select targets. Orbital miners are no use if they ignore useful resources to go pull up 25,000 tons of tritanium, for instance. I think most players would rather assign orbital miners to specific bodies than suffer from random selection, and any logic that is implemented will be sure to satisfy no one (except maybe Steve, but that is a big maybe).

There is also the question of whether this is the type of "micromanagement" that needs to be removed, which I don't think it is. Making decisions about where to send orbital miners is part of the core strategic gameplay of Aurora, so a standing order like this has the downside of removing interesting gameplay for the sake of expedience, which has never been Aurora's design philosophy.

So overall I think having the normal orders which can be repeated or cycled is sufficient as it is, and no change of this type is needed. I can see why some people might want that change, but I don't think that rationale is compelling for Aurora.

the standing order for moving to an asteroid with minerals is already in game and last i checked it moves to an asteroid with the highest total yield(all the accessibility values added together), so the only additions would be putting the mined minerals into the cargo hold if present and a conditional order to check for a full cargo hold and to empty the cargo hold at a suitable place
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #925 on: May 11, 2025, 04:47:55 AM »

I don't think a standing order for this would be as useful as it sounds. The issue is that automating orbital mining means the miners have to use some logic to select targets. Orbital miners are no use if they ignore useful resources to go pull up 25,000 tons of tritanium, for instance. I think most players would rather assign orbital miners to specific bodies than suffer from random selection, and any logic that is implemented will be sure to satisfy no one (except maybe Steve, but that is a big maybe).

There is also the question of whether this is the type of "micromanagement" that needs to be removed, which I don't think it is. Making decisions about where to send orbital miners is part of the core strategic gameplay of Aurora, so a standing order like this has the downside of removing interesting gameplay for the sake of expedience, which has never been Aurora's design philosophy.

So overall I think having the normal orders which can be repeated or cycled is sufficient as it is, and no change of this type is needed. I can see why some people might want that change, but I don't think that rationale is compelling for Aurora.

the standing order for moving to an asteroid with minerals is already in game and last i checked it moves to an asteroid with the highest total yield(all the accessibility values added together), so the only additions would be putting the mined minerals into the cargo hold if present and a conditional order to check for a full cargo hold and to empty the cargo hold at a suitable place

First, there is nothing wrong with suggesting things. Sometimes it isn't practical - for mechanics or coding reasons - but sometimes it finds its way into the game and occasionally I implement it immediately.

On this occasion, there are a couple of issues. The standing order to move to an orbital mining location isn't used in-game. It was originally intended for civilian orbital miners, where the actual mineral composition didn't really matter, apart from having Duranium and being high accessibility, because the end-goal is the same as civilian mining colonies - revenue for the player, with an option to buy the minerals if they match his needs. Civilian orbital miners were not implemented, so the code isn't used. The NPR AI uses a different method for its orbital miners, where it assesses potential targets based on its current mineral needs. Actually it assesses all mining locations, using an AI mining score, but restricts orbital miners to a subset of the list.

This brings us to the main problem with an automated orbital mining order; it's not straightforward to know which asteroid you need to mine. That decision should take into account current mineral stockpiles, overall rates of mineral production for each type and estimated usage by mineral. In a large Empire, the decision also needs to take into account the distances between sources and production, also considering the ease of moving those minerals to where they are needed. Then there is the decision regarding how far to move to the next asteroid. Should I settle for a less useful asteroid that is close by, or set off across a huge system for a particularly good asteroid that will take months to reach. How about accessibility vs amount - is it worth travelling a long way for high accessibility when the amounts are small - and that might be worth it if some key mineral has a large deposit, even though others would be swiftly exhausted.

These are relatively straightforward decisions for a human, because you can weight different factors vs your needs fairly quickly and easily, without even realising the complexity of your decision-making process. That is much more difficult for a program that has to specify and weight all those competing needs and factors in a sensible way that will apply to any given situation. That is why the AI has the mining score code to make it a reasonable decision, even though most of the time it won't be optimal. Humans like to be optimal, so I could quite easily spend a significant amount of time and effort on a standing order for moving orbital miners, and most people wouldn't use it because the results wouldn't match what they need.

With regard to the cargo hold vs colony for the mined minerals; as others have pointed out moving the miners to unload the minerals isn't very efficient. Even so, its a valid choice. However, whether you use cargo ships or orbital miners with cargo holds, you can still choose to load minerals from the surface. You will need to manually assign the next target anyway, so adding a load order isn't changing the management overhead very much - and you can choose to only load the important minerals. I might add the autoload into orbital miner cargo holds at some point, but its unlikely because its a niche requirement and my current spare time is very limited. Maybe later in the year.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2025, 04:50:57 AM by Steve Walmsley »
 
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Offline The_Seeker

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #926 on: May 19, 2025, 02:20:48 PM »
The suggestions to change orbital mining I think come from a deeper dissatisfaction with the Aurora orders system.  The orders system is really quite similar to a visual scripting language, except that you are limited to one player-defined loop, two premade loops (in the form of standing orders) and two conditional orders.  I think a lot of tedium could be removed from issuing orders if the system was a proper scripting environment.  Perhaps keep the GUI to construct simple scripts, but also offer the possibility of writing complex behavioral scripts by hand, so that players might use unlimited conditionals, loops, and knowledge about the game state to write one script defining the behavior of, say, an orbital miner, and never have to intervene in that fleet's affairs after that.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #927 on: May 20, 2025, 02:58:19 AM »
The suggestions to change orbital mining I think come from a deeper dissatisfaction with the Aurora orders system.  The orders system is really quite similar to a visual scripting language, except that you are limited to one player-defined loop, two premade loops (in the form of standing orders) and two conditional orders.  I think a lot of tedium could be removed from issuing orders if the system was a proper scripting environment.  Perhaps keep the GUI to construct simple scripts, but also offer the possibility of writing complex behavioral scripts by hand, so that players might use unlimited conditionals, loops, and knowledge about the game state to write one script defining the behavior of, say, an orbital miner, and never have to intervene in that fleet's affairs after that.

It would require a vast amount of code to implement an order scripting language, because of all the things that would need to be checked on setup and when anything in the game changes. Even the simple request that comes up occasionally to be able to insert a new order into the middle of the existing order list would require a large amount of code to check. The current orders method is intended to avoid logical errors within the game, which would happen a lot with scripting, which in turn could lead to code errors as unanticipated situations arise.

What would be possible without too much overhead would be to implement unlimited standing orders and conditional orders - as this would just use existing code to check more orders, with still only one being implemented. In that case, i could also add an option to save standing/conditional templates. There might be some performance impact if players were to add a lot of potential orders to every fleet.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2025, 03:33:00 AM by Steve Walmsley »
 
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Offline Indefatigable

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #928 on: May 22, 2025, 03:50:14 AM »
Standing/conditional order templates.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Reply #929 on: May 22, 2025, 03:53:21 AM »
Standing/conditional order templates.

See the post above yours :)