Author Topic: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough  (Read 3591 times)

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Offline Zap0

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2024, 06:57:46 AM »
Had a thought the other day, what about a troop drop module that works from a distance? Only needing to approach to 50k or so (depending on tech) would lessen troop transport requirements. That and/or just increasing troop capacity or reducing troop size.
 

Offline Andrew

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2024, 07:18:24 AM »
What advantage would landing troops from 50k give, thats still pretty much point blank range for the STO still. Unless you have teleporters then the troops have to travel that distance is something so even if you can drop from outside STO range it is reasonable for STO (and AA Weapons) to shoot at these approaching troops
Changing the size of troops is meaningless, if you make the attack forces easier to build you make the defense forces easier to build and the battle is the same .
 

Offline CharonJr

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2024, 08:00:29 AM »
Yeah, I meant the Ranger operation of Point due Hoc in preparation of D-Day.

And the shuttle/stealth missile was meant as an abstraction/justification why troops should be able to land on a planet while being launched some distance away from the planet. They could take the form of ship techs/modules on ships in order to enable such landings.

One could add different levels of ECM/stealth for such modules, making them harder to track/shoot down if you want to make it more realistic and add another layer of defense. If you want to raise the costs for such things having another tech for increasing drop ranges might be a way.

One enabler tech (maybe including a higher number of troops at higher levels for a higher success chance), one range tech, one ECM/stealth tech. In addition to the cost for the modules and the troops this might present enough of a hurdle were this is just one more option, but not necessarily the "best".

Essentially I just like the idea to have another option (even if it is very expensive) than blasting the STOs, shielding/armoring huge/fast drop ships or being willing to risk troops/ships by ignoring the STOs.
 

Offline Ulzgoroth

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2024, 06:21:28 PM »
In Aurora's technology, there isn't really such a thing as being stealthy at close range. A sneaky ship is one you see fewer millions of kilometers out...

Would it be possible to cross-deck troops from a non-military transport to a specialized assault ship reasonably quickly in space? That seems like it might let you use cheap transports for the bulk but also use high-performance craft for the under-fire step.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2024, 10:26:54 PM »
In Aurora's technology, there isn't really such a thing as being stealthy at close range. A sneaky ship is one you see fewer millions of kilometers out...

Would it be possible to cross-deck troops from a non-military transport to a specialized assault ship reasonably quickly in space? That seems like it might let you use cheap transports for the bulk but also use high-performance craft for the under-fire step.

I think it's possible, though I'm not sure how it's done mechanically, but there's not really an advantage to doing this. Either way, you still have to get all of the ships involved into the area of operations - so you might as well just transport the troops with the assault ships anyways.

In VB6, drop-capable ships used to work this way since ground units which stayed inside them for more than a few days suffered morale losses, so transferring troops from bulk transports to specialized dropships was more or less a requirement. This feature did not make it into C# and I imagine that was because the extra micro involved did not translate to any interesting gameplay decisions, so it was just needless busy-work and added costs in practice.
 

Offline Ulzgoroth

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2024, 11:01:48 PM »
In Aurora's technology, there isn't really such a thing as being stealthy at close range. A sneaky ship is one you see fewer millions of kilometers out...

Would it be possible to cross-deck troops from a non-military transport to a specialized assault ship reasonably quickly in space? That seems like it might let you use cheap transports for the bulk but also use high-performance craft for the under-fire step.

I think it's possible, though I'm not sure how it's done mechanically, but there's not really an advantage to doing this. Either way, you still have to get all of the ships involved into the area of operations - so you might as well just transport the troops with the assault ships anyways.

In VB6, drop-capable ships used to work this way since ground units which stayed inside them for more than a few days suffered morale losses, so transferring troops from bulk transports to specialized dropships was more or less a requirement. This feature did not make it into C# and I imagine that was because the extra micro involved did not translate to any interesting gameplay decisions, so it was just needless busy-work and added costs in practice.
You need to get all the ships involved into the area, but if you can use a far smaller number of expensive militarized dropships to land the army, how is that not advantageous? (The idea of course being that the non-militarized transports will stay outside STO range, while the dropships with all the trimmings shuttle between the 'offshore' group and the drop zone.)

It might not be an improvement on using an entire flotilla of technically-commercial heavily armored assault ships, but if one wants higher-performance military assault ships, being able to use much less tonnage of those than you would need to transport the entire force seems helpful?
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2024, 12:42:25 AM »
In Aurora's technology, there isn't really such a thing as being stealthy at close range. A sneaky ship is one you see fewer millions of kilometers out...

Would it be possible to cross-deck troops from a non-military transport to a specialized assault ship reasonably quickly in space? That seems like it might let you use cheap transports for the bulk but also use high-performance craft for the under-fire step.

I think it's possible, though I'm not sure how it's done mechanically, but there's not really an advantage to doing this. Either way, you still have to get all of the ships involved into the area of operations - so you might as well just transport the troops with the assault ships anyways.

In VB6, drop-capable ships used to work this way since ground units which stayed inside them for more than a few days suffered morale losses, so transferring troops from bulk transports to specialized dropships was more or less a requirement. This feature did not make it into C# and I imagine that was because the extra micro involved did not translate to any interesting gameplay decisions, so it was just needless busy-work and added costs in practice.
You need to get all the ships involved into the area, but if you can use a far smaller number of expensive militarized dropships to land the army, how is that not advantageous? (The idea of course being that the non-militarized transports will stay outside STO range, while the dropships with all the trimmings shuttle between the 'offshore' group and the drop zone.)

It might not be an improvement on using an entire flotilla of technically-commercial heavily armored assault ships, but if one wants higher-performance military assault ships, being able to use much less tonnage of those than you would need to transport the entire force seems helpful?

Ah, I see what you mean. I think in this case, there are a couple of problems with the idea:
  • The dropships will take damage from STOs on each run, so you may end up losing the dropships before you finish landing the troops. One advantage of a large number of dropships is that the STO fie will be dispersed between them, or at least that if a few get destroyed a larger proportion of the troops will make planetfall.
  • Transferring troops between ships is not an instantaneous operation (unlike in VB6). I think, based on the loading times I've seen for both cargo shuttle bays and picking up troops from captured ships with boarding-capable bays, that the time required to make the transfer would exceed the 8-hour ground combat increment or at least would be comparable in magnitude. Which means that the first troops of the much smaller wave will take very heavy damage and perhaps even be annihilated (depending on relative force sizes) before the next wave lands.
If the only time involved were the travel time between the main transport fleet and the planet under invasion, then it could work as long as point (1) could be overcome, but I think point (2) is the real killer here. That said, I've never tried something like this, so I could be wrong about the mechanical details - I am extrapolating from adjacent mechanics, and I don't see why this would work any differently (assuming it does work), but it very well could.
 
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Offline Andrew

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2024, 05:19:54 AM »
I find that for a large planatery invasion I need more troops than I can transport in one wave, as going to another system to fetch them is a none starter I set up a forward base on a moon or nearby planet to my target, You could use the fast trasnports to ferry from there to the target instead of switching between ships, it still takes a long time to load the troops so each wave has to be large so that if can survive until the next wave arrives
 

Offline Steve Zax

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Re: Very first step into planetary assault - will they last long enough
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2024, 07:09:07 PM »
If it were easy, ANYBODY could do it!
 
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