Approapriate Weapon System for a Magnetic Accelerator Cannon in Aurora (Halo)

[SpaceMarine (OP)]

So starting up my Halo AAR I have come to a bit of a conundrum that surrounds the Magnetic Accelerator Cannons from Halo (MACs), these weapons feature predominantly in the franchise and modelling them in Aurora is difficult in a few key areas, first I will describe what MACs are in Halo lore and the current substitutes that I am considering, the purpose of this post is to take suggestions on how best to model these weapons in my AAR.


Magnetic Accelerator Cannons in Halo Lore

MACs are weapons featured on almost all UNSC vessels in Halo, they come in multiple sizes and are all capable of firing extremely fast kinetic projectiles towards enemy ships with speeds up to 12,000 kilometers per second or 4% the speed of light. A single MAC shot can destroy an unshielded ship while it may take multiple to destroy a shielded one, these weapons fire in a straight line and accurately punch holes straight through their targets. This level of firepower has drawbacks as they require a significant amount of power and it can take a noticeable time between shots, and the space required to mount such a weapon often will take the entire length of a ship, in a spinal mount.


Options for Magnetic Accelerator Cannons in Aurora

There are no weapons that are explicitly MACs in aurora, however there are weapons which can substitute for them with renaming based on the characteristics of the weapons, there are two primary options Particle Lances and Spinal Lasers. the advantages and cons of both approaches are as follows.

Particle lances:

Pros

Particle lances have the same damage profile as a MAC with a single straight line of damage cutting straight through armour at a single point, they also are weak against shields which is lore accurate to halo, they have a long recharge rate and their range to act as "sniper" style weapons is also accurate to the employment of MACs.

Cons

Particle lances are not spinal and cannot be made as such, due to this you can have multiple of them and their size is relatively little to the size of a ship, ideally you would want a single massive particle lance but this is not possible and so having only one can feel rather pathetic when it comes to actual combat duty.

Spinal Lasers:

Pros

Spinal Lasers match the MACs nature of usually only having one per ship and running along the spine of a ship, the spinal aspect also increases the size and power requirements and this matches halo lore, a single shot that can do a lot of damage, its range is also good enough for the sniping roll.

Cons

Spinal lasers are not particle lances and do not have the damage profile. Further only a single one can be taken which complicates the situation when it comes to larger vessels which were able to mount multiple MACs, their size and real world damage output is also low if only a single one is taken for such a large ship.


Ideas:

Generally speaking i would lean to particle lances however thebiggest issue that comes to my mind is how to make the weapon as lethal as it is in lore and to take up a serious amount of the ships actual size while also taking a good amount of time to recharge, my initial thought was multiple particle lances that have a single reactor attached and as such take a long time to charge up (assuming this works) as the reactor has to go down the line of each "cell" and charge the MAC up before firing, this would allow a massive strike from the weapon but would take a long time to recharge and it would take up a real amount of the ships size, however I am unsure how true to life this would be. My only other idea would be potentially editing the database to see if i could adjust weapons to fit things better (probably not possible).

Looking for feedback and ideas from the brilliance of aurora players, appreciate it.

[Xkill]

I believe the difficulty in doing this lies in the fact that weapon sizes in Aurora do not scale or are not dependent on the size of ships that mount them. I have for a while toyed with the idea of beam weapon design being based on size rather than caliber, similar to how it is done for missile launchers, for reasons such as yours. "Spinal" weapons in Aurora are not really spinal, just "oversized", and with a rather arbitrary limit of one per ship, considering the actual tonnage used. If you could design a beam weapon that masses 40k tons for your 75k ton ship, that does apocalyptic damage to the target, such RP weapons would be much easier to make fit the universe.

Your best bet is indeed particle lances, ignoring the low relative tonnage, and just focusing on the damage profile.

[Gyrfalcon]

What about spinal plasma carronades? Big blast, big damage, slow recharge.

[SpaceMarine (OP)]

What about spinal plasma carronades? Big blast, big damage, slow recharge.

While you can get a really big gun with that the problem si its more like a shotgun and doesnt have the actual range or precision modeled as a MAC has, the lance has a perfect profile the issue is finding a way to scale it to a point that gives it the same level of importance that MACs in halo lore have

[Kurt]

So starting up my Halo AAR I have come to a bit of a conundrum that surrounds the Magnetic Accelerator Cannons from Halo (MACs), these weapons feature predominantly in the franchise and modelling them in Aurora is difficult in a few key areas, first I will describe what MACs are in Halo lore and the current substitutes that I am considering, the purpose of this post is to take suggestions on how best to model these weapons in my AAR.


Magnetic Accelerator Cannons in Halo Lore

MACs are weapons featured on almost all UNSC vessels in Halo, they come in multiple sizes and are all capable of firing extremely fast kinetic projectiles towards enemy ships with speeds up to 12,000 kilometers per second or 4% the speed of light. A single MAC shot can destroy an unshielded ship while it may take multiple to destroy a shielded one, these weapons fire in a straight line and accurately punch holes straight through their targets. This level of firepower has drawbacks as they require a significant amount of power and it can take a noticeable time between shots, and the space required to mount such a weapon often will take the entire length of a ship, in a spinal mount.


Options for Magnetic Accelerator Cannons in Aurora

There are no weapons that are explicitly MACs in aurora, however there are weapons which can substitute for them with renaming based on the characteristics of the weapons, there are two primary options Particle Lances and Spinal Lasers. the advantages and cons of both approaches are as follows.

Particle lances:

Pros

Particle lances have the same damage profile as a MAC with a single straight line of damage cutting straight through armour at a single point, they also are weak against shields which is lore accurate to halo, they have a long recharge rate and their range to act as "sniper" style weapons is also accurate to the employment of MACs.

Cons

Particle lances are not spinal and cannot be made as such, due to this you can have multiple of them and their size is relatively little to the size of a ship, ideally you would want a single massive particle lance but this is not possible and so having only one can feel rather pathetic when it comes to actual combat duty.

Spinal Lasers:

Pros

Spinal Lasers match the MACs nature of usually only having one per ship and running along the spine of a ship, the spinal aspect also increases the size and power requirements and this matches halo lore, a single shot that can do a lot of damage, its range is also good enough for the sniping roll.

Cons

Spinal lasers are not particle lances and do not have the damage profile. Further only a single one can be taken which complicates the situation when it comes to larger vessels which were able to mount multiple MACs, their size and real world damage output is also low if only a single one is taken for such a large ship.


Ideas:

Generally speaking i would lean to particle lances however thebiggest issue that comes to my mind is how to make the weapon as lethal as it is in lore and to take up a serious amount of the ships actual size while also taking a good amount of time to recharge, my initial thought was multiple particle lances that have a single reactor attached and as such take a long time to charge up (assuming this works) as the reactor has to go down the line of each "cell" and charge the MAC up before firing, this would allow a massive strike from the weapon but would take a long time to recharge and it would take up a real amount of the ships size, however I am unsure how true to life this would be. My only other idea would be potentially editing the database to see if i could adjust weapons to fit things better (probably not possible).

Looking for feedback and ideas from the brilliance of aurora players, appreciate it.

I have thought on this subject somewhat frequently.  I like the current ability to make a "Spinal" laser in Aurora, but unless its mounted on a relatively small ship its not really a spinal weapon, which should take up a significant percentage of the ship's tonnage.  Unfortunately, I don't think there is any true analog to the MAC cannons from HALO.  As you noted you could use particle lances, as they are definitely the closest that you could get to a MAC cannon.  To get around the drawbacks you noted you could, for story purposes, refer to the ship's entire complement of particle lances as one or more MAC cannons.  Unfortunately that would not result in a damage profile similar to one large weapon, though.

[SpaceMarine (OP)]

I feel like Spinal weapons need to have a rework, they just dont have the impact on size or firepower you would think putting a single large weapon through the spine of the ship would. I think to get the actual effect am gonna have to do my idea of multiple particle lances which represent coils in the gun and a reactor which may be undersized that recharges the gun every say minute to 2 minutes, unless anyone else has any other ideas.

[Panopticon]

You might consider going a very different route and using a super missile. Make it some ridiculous size, keep it short range, and dump a ton of MSP into engine and warhead. Give it a custom name.

[SpaceMarine (OP)]

You might consider going a very different route and using a super missile. Make it some ridiculous size, keep it short range, and dump a ton of MSP into engine and warhead. Give it a custom name.

The issue with this is how to make it actually effective gameplay wise, i do like the idea though and it means i could have actual ammunition rounds for the MAC and use them for bombardment etc

[Panopticon]

Yeah, it def would take some non-optimal missile design, but it would allow for the flexibility that MAC rounds have, also would be able to replicate their range, in universe they are the longest range weapons humans have, and in Aurora you get stuck with the energy weapon range cap.

[SpaceMarine (OP)]

Yeah, it def would take some non-optimal missile design, but it would allow for the flexibility that MAC rounds have, also would be able to replicate their range, in universe they are the longest range weapons humans have, and in Aurora you get stuck with the energy weapon range cap.

If we can think of a way to make it a viable weapon that can actually hit things i will 100% do it because yea it does allow a lot of in lore representation and say a size 80 missile launcher is 4000t at full reload which is a significant part of a ship, and if it does hit the warhead strength can 1 shot a 22500t vessel i have built

[non sequitur]

They way I have done it when I have tried designing Halo ships is use spinal lasers and then create a system using my largest non-spinal laser caliber and call it "secondary MAC."

[SpaceMarine (OP)]

Toying around with the idea of using missiles, heres an example of what a ship at 30kt using gas core tech would have, its 5000 tons of space to mount this between the magazine and the launcher, the launcher is a "light" MAC, aka a size 60 full reload rate missile launcher, and the magazine has enough capacity to store 10 kinetic rounds

Code: [Select]

XM1000 class Frigate (P)      30,000 tons       667 Crew       3,865.7 BP       TCS 600    TH 1,800    EM 0
3000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 5-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 138      Sensors 6/6/0/0      DCR 14-4      PPV 176.88
Maint Life 1.02 Years     MSP 1,143    AFR 507%    IFR 7.0%    1YR 1,093    5YR 16,402    Max Repair 600 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Boarding Capable    Magazine 1,236 / 0   
Captain    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   ENG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 10    Morale Check Required   

Shaw-Fujikawa Translight Engine M30K-3-5     Max Ship Size 30000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Riopel-Rimando Drive Systems K90 Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1800    Fuel Use 90.00%    Signature 900    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 3,159,000 Litres    Range 21.1 billion km (81 days at full power)

M840 Bulwark Point Defence Turret (4x6)    Range 10,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Point Defence FCS (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s    ECCM-0     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

M24 Defender missile pods (96)     Missile Size: 6    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
(Light)10L6R8 Magnetic Accelerator Cannon (1)     Missile Size: 60    Rate of Fire 80
MFCS-22-150 (1)     Range 22.8m km    Resolution 150
Mk 8 Defender ASM (96)    Speed: 28,000 km/s    End: 6.1m     Range: 10.2m km    WH: 6    Size: 6    TH: 93/56/28
XM1039 Kinetic Energy Projector Round (11)    Speed: 31,333 km/s    End: 0.3m     Range: 0.6m km    WH: 38.8    Size: 60.00    TH: 120/72/36

Cayouette Electronics AS56/R150 Radar array (1)     GPS 9000     Range 56.9m km    Resolution 150
Cayouette Electronics AS4/R1 Radar array (1)     GPS 12     Range 4.8m km    MCR 430.9k km    Resolution 1
Cayouette Electronics Industries T10-60 Thermal Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km
Cayouette Electronics Industries F10-60 EM Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km

Strike Group / Ground Forces
1x Epoch Scout   Speed: 2254 km/s    Size: 9.98
4x Marine Company
At my relatively low tech level the "Missile" in question is not the most impressive but still two of them will destroy one of my current mainline frigates if they get through, i have stacked it with decoys and terminal guidance to give it the best chance it can, but of course more experimentation will be needed i have done some tests and it seems viable at actually getting through PD atleast on a localised level. also who doesnt like a 750 metric ton projectile being fired 31,333km/s towards aliens.

[nuclearslurpee]

You might consider going a very different route and using a super missile. Make it some ridiculous size, keep it short range, and dump a ton of MSP into engine and warhead. Give it a custom name.

Toying around with the idea of using missiles, heres an example of what a ship at 30kt using gas core tech would have, its 5000 tons of space to mount this between the magazine and the launcher, the launcher is a "light" MAC, aka a size 60 full reload rate missile launcher, and the magazine has enough capacity to store 10 kinetic rounds

At my relatively low tech level the "Missile" in question is not the most impressive but still two of them will destroy one of my current mainline frigates if they get through, i have stacked it with decoys and terminal guidance to give it the best chance it can, but of course more experimentation will be needed i have done some tests and it seems viable at actually getting through PD atleast on a localised level. also who doesnt like a 750 metric ton projectile being fired 31,333km/s towards aliens.

I did something similar in a WH40K setup to represent the Nova Cannon. This was before 2.2, so we did not have decoys so I ended up making the Nova Cannon round break into a couple dozen submunitions to have some chance of beating point defense. Never got to fire it though... nowadays with decoys you can probably make something pretty strong against enemy PD.

[SpaceMarine (OP)]

You might consider going a very different route and using a super missile. Make it some ridiculous size, keep it short range, and dump a ton of MSP into engine and warhead. Give it a custom name.

Toying around with the idea of using missiles, heres an example of what a ship at 30kt using gas core tech would have, its 5000 tons of space to mount this between the magazine and the launcher, the launcher is a "light" MAC, aka a size 60 full reload rate missile launcher, and the magazine has enough capacity to store 10 kinetic rounds

At my relatively low tech level the "Missile" in question is not the most impressive but still two of them will destroy one of my current mainline frigates if they get through, i have stacked it with decoys and terminal guidance to give it the best chance it can, but of course more experimentation will be needed i have done some tests and it seems viable at actually getting through PD atleast on a localised level. also who doesnt like a 750 metric ton projectile being fired 31,333km/s towards aliens.

I did something similar in a WH40K setup to represent the Nova Cannon. This was before 2.2, so we did not have decoys so I ended up making the Nova Cannon round break into a couple dozen submunitions to have some chance of beating point defense. Never got to fire it though... nowadays with decoys you can probably make something pretty strong against enemy PD.

With enough decoys, ATG and as much speed as you can give it, its got a decent shot of getting through, i think for something like a super mac on a OWP I will have them mount 3 size 99 launchers to represent rapid fire SMAC fire so 3 rounds in a burst etc. my only sad thing around this is, you cant make missile launchers bigger than 99 (why steve? come on pls give). so I cant have a literal 3000t projectile which they have in lore at most i can have a 1225t round

[nuclearslurpee]

With enough decoys, ATG and as much speed as you can give it, its got a decent shot of getting through, i think for something like a super mac on a OWP I will have them mount 3 size 99 launchers to represent rapid fire SMAC fire so 3 rounds in a burst etc. my only sad thing around this is, you cant make missile launchers bigger than 99 (why steve? come on pls give). so I cant have a literal 3000t projectile which they have in lore at most i can have a 1225t round

To be fair, if you are saying that ships are 1/5 to 1/20 their canonical sizes, a 1225 ton round works for the job, in fact it is a bit overkill at that ratio. Unfortunately however we are stuck with 247.5-ton projectiles (99 MSP * 2.5 tons/MSP) which implies just about a 1/12 ratio, solidly in the middle of that range but an unfortunate upper limit.

Maybe this should go into the suggestions thread, but instead of MACs say it is for Nova Cannons, Steve likes WH40K so that may pander more.