Computer-controlled Empires

[waresky]

Sure istn lovable see Pirates-Precursor or (am fear!!) an NPR fully Armed at 1 Jump Away from Terra..nightmare situation for every Admiralty..

but "casualty" are ever a word:"CASUALTY"

Steve remeber very good the situation on Megatraveller (hhim love same me this game) Solomani: Vilani EMpire span in 10000 worlds ALL AROUND the puny Sol race:))))...but Vilani are Humanoid and more peaceful and oldest race,good for FIRST encounter...but "Merseians" "khanate Of orions" isnt a same "GOOD" encounter on 1 jump away..this a END of human race..

[SteveAlt]

With the introduction of NPRs, it is entirely possible that combat may be taking place between NPRs, or between NPRs and Precursors, without the knowledge of the players. Therefore in v4.0, you can detect nuclear explosions in a system if you have a thermal or EM sensor anywhere in that system. These will show up as normal contacts but will only last for one increment. Each contact will display the number of explosions of the same strength that happened in the same location. If there are explosions with two different strengths in the same location then two contacts will be displayed.

Steve

[backstab]

Steve,

Have you got an ETA on when 4.0 will be available ?

[SteveAlt]

Steve,

Have you got an ETA on when 4.0 will be available ?

Nothing firm yet - I did think about two weeks but I keep adding new things , which means more testing. I also recently subscribed to Lord of the Rings Online, which is a little distracting. It's the first MMORPG in which I take time to enjoy the scenery. Rather than power-levelling as I did in EQ, DAOC, Warcraft or Warhammer, I am enjoying a leisurely stroll through a (so-far) well constructed and atmospheric game.

I have a list of about thirty additional pieces of work for NPRs but very few of them will make it into v4.0 because otherwise I will never release it. Most of the remaining work for v4.0 involves testing, part of which can be done through playing my own campaign but some that will require me to setup brief new campaigns to test areas such as NPRs updating technology and ship designs as a result of research. I won't be reporting on these though. At some point I am just going to have to release it though as players will find far more bugs than I can. I just want to avoid any major problems.

Steve

[Shinanygnz]

Think like a Klingon software developer Steve...
"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"
And anyway, "What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. Our software escapes, leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake!"

And when the inevitable happens,
Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak.
By filing this bug report you have challenged the honour of my family. Prepare to die!
You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!

[waresky]

omg..Steve mmorpg's distracting:)..
from 1995 (UO my first MMOG) atm (EVE) ive been playing too many..and TOO many are DAMNED same each others..probably best (housing,skilling,research,build-items) remain forever: StarWagalaxy.

STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVE! left the horrorifc LOTR and return into SPACE!!!
D..

sigh..sigh..we awaitn with passion 4.0...sigh..pleeeeeeeeeease:)

See ya.

i will encounter Zhodani around Regina's Solar system:)))

[Charlie Beeler]

Think like a Klingon software developer Steve...
"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"
And anyway, "What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. Our software escapes, leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake!"

And when the inevitable happens,
Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak.
By filing this bug report you have challenged the honour of my family. Prepare to die!
You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!

I see someone has been into the Emperor's Bloodwine again.  (or was it his stash of Romulian Ale?)  

[Erik L]

Steve,

Have you got an ETA on when 4.0 will be available ?

Nothing firm yet - I did think about two weeks but I keep adding new things

[Larac]

For me it seems there are 2 reasons to have Pirates.

1: Where there are goods worth money there will be those seeking to take them.
Like today they take the ship off load the goods then sale the ship back to the owners or Insurance company, as the ship many time is close to value as the cargo.

2: Where there are Political groups a Privateer system allows capture of ships and crew, cargo and information, without having to Declare War.
Also it serves to weaken the bonds of the farthest colonies  as the home worlds are not the ones providing tech. A pirate base set up in a remote system that takes care of the populace will find a lot of friends.



And deep down it is fun to think about them.

Did you know the Age of Sail Pirates had a disability system, death benefits, and many other systems in place to t take care of their people.

Pirates in Space will work much like the wet navy ones, spies will be bribed to tell them when and where a cargo ship will be, what it is carrying and so on. Many Civ ships will also run routes supplying X to one system and carrying Y to the next, this type of commerce is very open to pirates, each stop is information.

Good Luck looking forward to the 4.0 stuff even though I am still lost on 3.2


Lee

[SteveAlt]

I'd ask you what server... but the EU and NA servers are separate... Silverlode is the one I'm on

I am on the European roleplay server, although I can't remember the name

Steve

[SteveAlt]

For me it seems there are 2 reasons to have Pirates.

1: Where there are goods worth money there will be those seeking to take them.
Like today they take the ship off load the goods then sale the ship back to the owners or Insurance company, as the ship many time is close to value as the cargo.

The problem is going to be how the pirates build the ships and how I simulate the gain of goods within the game. I have tried to simulate that players do not have total control of ther Empire through the use of civilians. To have true pirates rather than precursors I need to introduce some way for civilians to build a secret base/shipyard without being detected and then somehow use their pirate acivity to increase their capabilities or simply make money. So far I haven't found a realistic way to set that up but I haven't given up on th eidea.

2: Where there are Political groups a Privateer system allows capture of ships and crew, cargo and information, without having to Declare War.
Also it serves to weaken the bonds of the farthest colonies  as the home worlds are not the ones providing tech. A pirate base set up in a remote system that takes care of the populace will find a lot of friends.

I like the privateer idea, although when it comes to alien races they may not distinguish so easily between privateers and the rest of the same species. Setting up some sort of government sponsored piracy though might be a possibility.

And deep down it is fun to think about them.

I completely agree. Having pirates to fight without having to deal with a major war adds a lot to the quiet periods in any game. I hope with precursors and hostile AI races though, players will have plenty to occupy them. Once NPRs are working well, I also intend to revisit some of the space monster ideas I have had in the past

Steve

[sloanjh]

The problem is going to be how the pirates build the ships and how I simulate the gain of goods within the game. I have tried to simulate that players do not have total control of ther Empire through the use of civilians. To have true pirates rather than precursors I need to introduce some way for civilians to build a secret base/shipyard without being detected and then somehow use their pirate acivity to increase their capabilities or simply make money. So far I haven't found a realistic way to set that up but I haven't given up on th eidea.

Hi Steve,

Did you see my post in another thread with the idea of having pirate gunboats, or did it get lost in the noise?  I assume a gunboat base is simpler to justify hiding within an existing population, and it actually is fairly realistic in terms of current day (read Somali/Indonesian) and historical pirates, most of whom (I vaguely recall reading somewhere, perhaps in Sid Meier's Pirates! docs) were a bunch of guys in a dinky boat attacking coastal trade.

If you want me to go dig it up, let me know.

Thanks,
John

[SteveAlt]

Did you see my post in another thread with the idea of having pirate gunboats, or did it get lost in the noise?  I assume a gunboat base is simpler to justify hiding within an existing population, and it actually is fairly realistic in terms of current day (read Somali/Indonesian) and historical pirates, most of whom (I vaguely recall reading somewhere, perhaps in Sid Meier's Pirates! docs) were a bunch of guys in a dinky boat attacking coastal trade.

If you want me to go dig it up, let me know.

Please could you repost it as I don't remember reading it.

Steve

[sloanjh]

Please could you repost it as I don't remember reading it.

Here's a link to the thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1390&p=11915&hilit=Somalia#p11915

On pirates:  I'm hoping this would couple in with a "domestic unrest" system, i.e. rebellious planets, economically oppressed planets, etc.  One way to do this might be through gunboats (or even fighters) rather than full-up ships.  I forget how hard it is to detect GB bases on a planet, but if it isn't an autodetect situation, then they could pop up on poorly-governed worlds in the same way civilian space centers do.  Or a civilian cargo ship could drop a GB base off on a nearby asteroid or moon, and regularly perform re-supply runs.  Or the cargo hold on a civilian ship might actually be a hangar bay for fighters.  The core idea here is that piracy would be a function of lawless populations, and could actually be based on worlds controlled by the empire.  One nice part of this is that it gives a motivation for having armed fleet units (and security/military units?) even if no external threats to the empire (NPR races) are present - they would be needed for piracy suppression.  It could also change the garrison requirements from being hard-wired to being a decision made by players: pirate attacks would increase unhappiness (leading to lower productivity); ground forces would reduce lawlessness (reducing the chance of pirates springing up) while naval patrols would provide protection.

This model also works for "privateers" or "freedom fighters" - a conquered population might have a high chance of producing "pirate" (actually rebel) bases, while another government might spontaneously commission civilian Q-ships.  The lawlessness and/or pirate/privateer probability could also be skewed by government type.

I don't have detailed knowledge of it, but my recollection is that the vast majority of historical pirates didn't have a blue-water capability; instead they were short-ranged boats full of men which preyed on coastal traffic.  This seems to be what's been going on off Somalia until recently, and also the sort of pirates that have been active in Indonesia (Straights of Malacca, IIRC) for many years now.  It seems like the Somalian pirates have recently gained blue-water capability by using "tenders"; this is where the idea above for civilian cargo ships that actually have hangar space for GB or fighters came from.  Another observation here is that, in both cases, they're operating near choke points or navigational obstructions - the Aurora equivalent would be to find an asteroid near a heavily used asteroid and park a pirate base there.

John

ISTR making another post about this (saying that I'd really like to play an uplift game where the navy is primarily an anti-piracy force before 1st contact), but I can't find it.  The central idea I'm pushing is that a GB or Fighter base could be easy to hide in the "noise" of a population.  I hadn't thought in terms of trying to model the economics of the piracy - it's probably one of those low probability/high payoff things that keeps a steady flow of entrepenuers joining up.  In other words, drive the probability of pirates appearing on a world based on a "lawlessness" factor rather than on economics - the model is essentially "if pirates aren't suppressed they will show up."

John

[SteveAlt]

Please could you repost it as I don't remember reading it.

Here's a link to the thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1390&p=11915&hilit=Somalia#p11915

On pirates:  I'm hoping this would couple in with a "domestic unrest" system, i.e. rebellious planets, economically oppressed planets, etc.  One way to do this might be through gunboats (or even fighters) rather than full-up ships.  I forget how hard it is to detect GB bases on a planet, but if it isn't an autodetect situation, then they could pop up on poorly-governed worlds in the same way civilian space centers do.  Or a civilian cargo ship could drop a GB base off on a nearby asteroid or moon, and regularly perform re-supply runs.  Or the cargo hold on a civilian ship might actually be a hangar bay for fighters.  The core idea here is that piracy would be a function of lawless populations, and could actually be based on worlds controlled by the empire.  One nice part of this is that it gives a motivation for having armed fleet units (and security/military units?) even if no external threats to the empire (NPR races) are present - they would be needed for piracy suppression.  It could also change the garrison requirements from being hard-wired to being a decision made by players: pirate attacks would increase unhappiness (leading to lower productivity); ground forces would reduce lawlessness (reducing the chance of pirates springing up) while naval patrols would provide protection.

This model also works for "privateers" or "freedom fighters" - a conquered population might have a high chance of producing "pirate" (actually rebel) bases, while another government might spontaneously commission civilian Q-ships.  The lawlessness and/or pirate/privateer probability could also be skewed by government type.

I don't have detailed knowledge of it, but my recollection is that the vast majority of historical pirates didn't have a blue-water capability; instead they were short-ranged boats full of men which preyed on coastal traffic.  This seems to be what's been going on off Somalia until recently, and also the sort of pirates that have been active in Indonesia (Straights of Malacca, IIRC) for many years now.  It seems like the Somalian pirates have recently gained blue-water capability by using "tenders"; this is where the idea above for civilian cargo ships that actually have hangar space for GB or fighters came from.  Another observation here is that, in both cases, they're operating near choke points or navigational obstructions - the Aurora equivalent would be to find an asteroid near a heavily used asteroid and park a pirate base there.

John

ISTR making another post about this (saying that I'd really like to play an uplift game where the navy is primarily an anti-piracy force before 1st contact), but I can't find it.  The central idea I'm pushing is that a GB or Fighter base could be easy to hide in the "noise" of a population.  I hadn't thought in terms of trying to model the economics of the piracy - it's probably one of those low probability/high payoff things that keeps a steady flow of entrepenuers joining up.  In other words, drive the probability of pirates appearing on a world based on a "lawlessness" factor rather than on economics - the model is essentially "if pirates aren't suppressed they will show up."

That's a very interesting idea. I guess if civilians can build a civilian space port and construct freighters, it would be possible for them to build smaller, hidden versions and construct small FAC size ships for piracy operations. The downside is that they would be fairly easy to spot leaving the planet with the use of a single tracking station and even a small PDC could then pick them off. However, if we take your second idea then it does become a real possibility. I am already considering additional missions for civilian freighters so adding a clandestine mission to create or resupply a pirate base would not be too difficult. Instead of adding infrastructure to an existing colony, they would identify a suitable out of the way moon and create or add to a new facility type (Pirate Base) that could build its own FACs in the same way a civilian space centre builds freighters. Those FACs would behave like NPR ships, except they would attempt to capture ships or their cargo, I would need to add rules for surrendering unarmed ships but I was considering that anyway. Hmm, definite possibilities! I had better not try and do it for v4.0 though

Steve