4.3 Suggestions

[Steve Walmsley]

Long story short, how about changing the mechanism for colony transport from cryogenic freezing to something more akin to the current cruise liners?

The reason for the cryo transport is to keep the size of the colony modules within a reasonable limit. If each person only occupies a coffin-sized cryo chamber then the 2500 ton size of the cryo module is reasonable - it's about 1/4 ton and 0.005 HS per person. If they are conscious and moving around then the size requirement would be much higher. However, as someone else pointed out, there is nothing to stop you roleplaying it differently in your own campaign. You could change the name of the module and maybe even the size/cost.

If you rename the ship component to 'Luxury Passenger Accomodations' nothing is stopping you from defining how it works any way you want.  I'm not sure if you have to go all the way into the databse, or if the F2 'Population & Production' screen, 'Research' tab will enable such a change.

I think that, between these posts, there's a suggestion that troop transport holds be able to load and transport a small number of colonists as luxury passengers.  From a role-playing point of view it sounds cool; from a game mechanics point of view I doubt it would have much effect (unfortunately).

How about a Luxury Passenger Accomodation module that is the same size as the cryo modules but carries far fewer passengers. It may not be of much use to a player but if the civs used it to build 'liners', I could actually increase the tax and shipping line wealth benefits compared to the regular number of colonists based on the fact that each passenger would be paying a lot more. The disadvantage would be less colonists but the advantage would be a little more income. It would really be a civ-only system though designed to add a little more flavour to the game.

Steve

[welchbloke]

How about a Luxury Passenger Accomodation module that is the same size as the cryo modules but carries far fewer passengers. It may not be of much use to a player but if the civs used it to build 'liners', I could actually increase the tax and shipping line wealth benefits compared to the regular number of colonists based on the fact that each passenger would be paying a lot more. The disadvantage would be less colonists but the advantage would be a little more income. It would really be a civ-only system though designed to add a little more flavour to the game.

Steve

If you are feeling generous Steve, then why not? I'm all for flavour.  It's part of what makes Aurora fun.  That and the fact I like the idea of conducting unrestricted warfare against the civilian freighters and lners of my next enemy    I wonder how long it will be before they adopt a convoy system?

[Steve Walmsley]

The ability to sell/trade complete systems .... eg a race develops the A-1 Railgun and sells / trades it to another race instead of sell/tradeing each individual componant

This would be fairly straightforward in terms of programming but without the background knowledge, would the second race be able to build it? For example, if the US gave Albania the plans for the latest Patriot missile, could Albania actually manufacture the missiles?

To take this suggestion one step further how about selling complete weapon systems?  Sell 10x A-1 Railguns without giving the tech. I see backstab's suggestion as giving the information to 'licence produce' a system.  Whereas, what I'm suggesting is just like selling Typhoon to Saudi Arabia.  Of course you could retro-engineer the system maybe destroy the system to give you a random number of RP on the tech?

This is harder from a programming and gameplay perspective but probably more realistic. The problem is how you model the 10x A-1 railguns. Does Race A have to bulid them before giving them to Race B and if so, how do I account for that in the game. If instead you just say Race B can bulid 10 railguns and the program keeps track, that is no different than giving them the plans and if they are building it, how do you stop them building more?

These were the suggestions that started me down the whole ship components route, which from my own playtesting works very well and seems completely natural now. With components working, I decided to revisit the above. Despite my initial pessimism regarding whether passing on manufactured components to another race was workable, I have found a way to make it work. The ability to manufacture components is now in the game, so that's no problem. Transferring to another race is easy enough as well. I can just bring up a list of races on the new stockpile section and allow you to transfer components to another pop on the same planet, although that is really only workable in a multi-Earth start or in a game with mutiple player-controlled races. The ability to use components built by another race does open up a couple more significant possibilities though which I'll get back to later. However, the real problem is the one that John pointed out.

I'm worried about the micromanagement. How often do we think that we're going to be trading components between races? I can see it for a multi-civ earth game, but not of a game involving a single player race with lots of alien NPR. It also seems like it would vastly complicate class design - how do you specify a class that contains "alien" components? It seems that this might be more trouble to implement than it's worth.

This was what had me stumped - how do you design a class that contains components that you haven't researched yet? At the moment the tech you have researched is contained in the RaceTech table. This database table is the whole basis of your technical knowledge. The class design window will list all class components that are contained within (or in reality linked to) this table. At first I started playing around with extra columns to differentiate actual knowledge and temporary knowledge but it was too complex because as you can imagine the RaceTech table is referenced in a lot of places and I was also concerned it would screw up research and pre-requisite techs, etc.. Then I had a light-bulb moment

I have added a new table to the database called RaceDesignTech. This contains a list of the systems you can use in ship designs but that you don't have the knowledge to build yourself. RaceTech remains as it is and none of the areas of the program that reference this table are affected. However, when you open the class design window it now contains all the tech systems from both RaceTech and RaceDesignTech, allowing you to design classes containing systems you can't build. The name of any design-only system on the Design View is preceded by (D) and there is a checkbox that allows you to hide all design-only systems. When you research a system that is in RaceDesignTech, it is deleted from that table and added to RaceTech

When you attempt to create a shipbuilding task for either construction of a class that contains design-only system or a refit to a class with design-only systems, the program checks the component stockpile for that population to see if the necessary components exist. For construction it is very simple. If the required amount of design-only components are in the stockpile then they are consumed and the ship construction goes ahead. As normal (for v4.3) the cost of the ship is reduced by any stockpiled components, including the design-only ones. If insufficient components are available, a popup message informs you of that and you are unable to build the ship. For refits, it is slightly more complicated from a programming POV (but not from a user POV) because I have to check which components are actually needed for the refit. Some design-only components may already be in the ship that is being refitted so they wouldn't need to be in the stockpile.

This method makes designing ships with alien components very easy and the check on shipyard tasks means you can't build ships that use alien components you don't have stockpiled. As John pointed out though, the situation where an alien race gives you components may not happen very often. However, as I mentioned earlier, this ability to use alien components in your ships opens up a couple of new possibilities. The first one is that you can find ship components in ruins. You may find a cache of Improved Gravitational Sensors, perhaps some 20cm Ultraviolet Lasers or just some old Cyogenic Tranport Modules. Or perhaps one or two very advanced systems. These can then be transported to a planet with shipyards and incorporated in a special class of ship. When you find components in ruins, the program will automatically add those components to the new RaceDesignTech table so you can use them in ship designs. The second is related to the new scrapping method for v4.3. When you scrap one of your own ships in v4.3, you now have the components of that ship moved into the stockpile for the planet rather than receiving minerals. You can them scrap the individual components if you wish or use them in new designs. In the case of a captured alien ship, which you may capture using the new boarding combat, the same method will now apply. The alien components will be added to your component stockpile for use in your own ships and any components that you can't already build will be added to the RaceDesignTech table.

Once you have alien components in your stockpile, whether they be from a friendly alien race, a ruin or an scrapped alien vessel, an alternative to using them within your own ships will be to try and learn tech data by taking them apart. I haven't decided on the exact mechanics of this yet but I'll post the details to this thread when I do. Obviously you will lose the component in this case and the chance of gaining data will be limited so you will have to make a choice between using the component to gain a tactical advantage or expending it in an effort to gain some tech data.

I hope all of the above will add a new dimension to ship design.

Steve

[Steve Walmsley]

A couple of other minor changes for v4.3.

1) I was reading an article on the Mauretania the other day and found out that the British government loaded money to Cunard and increased their mail subsidy to support the building of Mauretania and Lusitania. That reminded me that governements will subside commercial organizations (particularly banks at the moment) when it is in the national interest to do so. Therefore there is now a Subsidy button on the Shipping Lines window. if you select a shipping line and click the button, 1000 weath is passed from your wealth stockpile to that of the shipping line. The advantage for the player is that he can increase the amount of colony ships and freighters without using up minerals but the disadvantage is that he has little control over what is built and how it is used.

2) As Industrial Capacity has replaced Construction Factories, Fighter Factories and Ordnance Factories, I decided to change the mineral requirement accordingly. Therefore the 120 BP Industrial Capacity installation requires 60 Duranium, 30 Tritanium and 30 Vendarite.

Steve

[welchbloke]

When you attempt to create a shipbuilding task for either construction of a class that contains design-only system or a refit to a class with design-only systems, the program checks the component stockpile for that population to see if the necessary components exist. For construction it is very simple. If the required amount of design-only components are in the stockpile then they are consumed and the ship construction goes ahead. As normal (for v4.3) the cost of the ship is reduced by any stockpiled components, including the design-only ones. If insufficient components are available, a popup message informs you of that and you are unable to build the ship. For refits, it is slightly more complicated from a programming POV (but not from a user POV) because I have to check which components are actually needed for the refit. Some design-only components may already be in the ship that is being refitted so they wouldn't need to be in the stockpile.

This method makes designing ships with alien components very easy and the check on shipyard tasks means you can't build ships that use alien components you don't have stockpiled. As John pointed out though, the situation where an alien race gives you components may not happen very often. However, as I mentioned earlier, this ability to use alien components in your ships opens up a couple of new possibilities. The first one is that you can find ship components in ruins. You may find a cache of Improved Gravitational Sensors, perhaps some 20cm Ultraviolet Lasers or just some old Cyogenic Tranport Modules. Or perhaps one or two very advanced systems. These can then be transported to a planet with shipyards and incorporated in a special class of ship. When you find components in ruins, the program will automatically add those components to the new RaceDesignTech table so you can use them in ship designs. The second is related to the new scrapping method for v4.3. When you scrap one of your own ships in v4.3, you now have the components of that ship moved into the stockpile for the planet rather than receiving minerals. You can them scrap the individual components if you wish or use them in new designs. In the case of a captured alien ship, which you may capture using the new boarding combat, the same method will now apply. The alien components will be added to your component stockpile for use in your own ships and any components that you can't already build will be added to the RaceDesignTech table.

Once you have alien components in your stockpile, whether they be from a friendly alien race, a ruin or an scrapped alien vessel, an alternative to using them within your own ships will be to try and learn tech data by taking them apart. I haven't decided on the exact mechanics of this yet but I'll post the details to this thread when I do. Obviously you will lose the component in this case and the chance of gaining data will be limited so you will have to make a choice between using the component to gain a tactical advantage or expending it in an effort to gain some tech data.

I hope all of the above will add a new dimension to ship design.

Steve

Steve, this looks great.  I have one question though.  Is there a higher cost (wealth/resources) if you try to fit a captured/discovered/bought system to your ship rather than researched and home grown system?  I'm just thinking that, for example,  Race A might use 300v 100Hz electricity to power their system whilst Race B uses 120v 50Hz  this would require some kind of interface system to allow you to interface the systme with your ship.Perhaps just adding additional mass would do?
Feel free to tell me to foxtrot oscar on this   I for one am just glad you've added components use to the game.

[Steve Walmsley]

Some minor changes to the Class Design window

An Obsolete Tech button has been added, which allows you to declare a tech system obsolete without having to open up the View Tech window

A Refresh Tech button has been added, which allows you to refresh the list of available components without having to reselect the Empire.

A Show Obsolete Tech checkbox has been added, which allows you to include all obsolete tech in the list of available components. If the Obsolete Tech button is used on an obsolete tech system, it removes the obsolete flag.

Steve

[Steve Walmsley]

I hope all of the above will add a new dimension to ship design.

Steve, this looks great.  I have one question though.  Is there a higher cost (wealth/resources) if you try to fit a captured/discovered/bought system to your ship rather than researched and home grown system?  I'm just thinking that, for example,  Race A might use 300v 100Hz electricity to power their system whilst Race B uses 120v 50Hz  this would require some kind of interface system to allow you to interface the systme with your ship.Perhaps just adding additional mass would do?
Feel free to tell me to foxtrot oscar on this   I for one am just glad you've added components use to the game.

From a realism perspective, you are definitely correct. From a gameplay perspective, it could get complex. Should the extra wealth/cost increase if the system is way beyond your tech, rather than just alien-produced versions of components that are not that different to what you could produce anyway. I don't think the extra complexity involved would provide any real gameplay benefit.

Steve

[welchbloke]

I hope all of the above will add a new dimension to ship design.

Steve, this looks great.  I have one question though.  Is there a higher cost (wealth/resources) if you try to fit a captured/discovered/bought system to your ship rather than researched and home grown system?  I'm just thinking that, for example,  Race A might use 300v 100Hz electricity to power their system whilst Race B uses 120v 50Hz  this would require some kind of interface system to allow you to interface the systme with your ship.Perhaps just adding additional mass would do?
Feel free to tell me to foxtrot oscar on this    It was just a random thought.

[Steve Walmsley]

How about a Luxury Passenger Accomodation module that is the same size as the cryo modules but carries far fewer passengers. It may not be of much use to a player but if the civs used it to build 'liners', I could actually increase the tax and shipping line wealth benefits compared to the regular number of colonists based on the fact that each passenger would be paying a lot more. The disadvantage would be less colonists but the advantage would be a little more income. It would really be a civ-only system though designed to add a little more flavour to the game.

Steve

If you are feeling generous Steve, then why not? I'm all for flavour.  It's part of what makes Aurora fun.  That and the fact I like the idea of conducting unrestricted warfare against the civilian freighters and lners of my next enemy  

The new Luxury Passenger Accomodation module has been added for v4.3. It is the same size and cost as the Cryogenic Transport Module but requires 100 crew instead of 10 and transports 250 passengers instead of 10,000 colonists. The tax and shipping line profit per passengers is forty times greater than per per colonist, which works out to the same amount for one Luxury Passenger Accomodation as for one Cryogenic Transport Module. The disadvantage of the Luxury Passenger Accomodation is obviously the massively reduced amount of colonists being transported. The advantage is that while the liner containing the Luxury Passenger Accomodation modules will only pick up at colonies of 25m+ (as with colony ships), it can drop off at any colony - not just a colonist destination. It will effectively be the same as the old Transatlantic Liners, providing a passenger service between colonies as well as making the occasional run to new colonies. Because the liner will often be carrying passengers both ways, it will make more money for the shipping line and the government than a colony ship. It is still classed a colony ship in several ways though, including the fact that it will prefer to visit a colony that doesn't currently have an inbound colony ship. This new ship should add some flavour and provide more income than a regular colony ship in exchange for its minimal capacity. A quick example...

Code: [Select]

Mauretania class Luxury Liner    27400 tons     836 Crew     1118.8 BP      TCS 548  TH 1650  EM 0
3010 km/s     Armour 1-80     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maintenance Capacity 26 MSP    Max Repair 38 MSP
Passengers 1250    Cargo Handling Multiplier 10    

Commercial Ion Engine (11)    Power 150    Fuel Use 7%    Signature 150    Armour 0    Exp 1%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 93.8 billion km   (360 days at full power)

This design is classed as a commercial vessel for maintenance purposesSteve

[mavikfelna]

With the new component rules, Can we get an option to recover some components from wrecks when they are being salvaged with a salvage module? Particularly with precursor wrecks?

And I assume we can scrap surrendered ships to get components from them?

Thanks,
--Mav

[Steve Walmsley]

With the new component rules, Can we get an option to recover some components from wrecks when they are being salvaged with a salvage module? Particularly with precursor wrecks?

Usually, by the time a ship is destroyed, all the components have been destroyed first. However, it is possible for a ship to still have one or two components left undamaged when it finally blows up so I will record any components that remain and add them to the cargo holds of the salvage ship when salvage is completed.

And I assume we can scrap surrendered ships to get components from them?

Yes, that will already work as things stand now.

Steve

[welchbloke]

As usual I have gone slightly further than I intended

The new Luxury Passenger Accomodation module has been added for v4.3. It is the same size and cost as the Cryogenic Transport Module but requires 100 crew instead of 10 and transports 250 passengers instead of 10,000 colonists. The tax and shipping line profit per passengers is forty times greater than per per colonist, which works out to the same amount for one Luxury Passenger Accomodation as for one Cryogenic Transport Module. The disadvantage of the Luxury Passenger Accomodation is obviously the massively reduced amount of colonists being transported. The advantage is that while the liner containing the Luxury Passenger Accomodation modules will only pick up at colonies of 25m+ (as with colony ships), it can drop off at any colony - not just a colonist destination. It will effectively be the same as the old Transatlantic Liners, providing a passenger service between colonies as well as making the occasional run to new colonies. Because the liner will often be carrying passengers both ways, it will make more money for the shipping line and the government than a colony ship. It is still classed a colony ship in several ways though, including the fact that it will prefer to visit a colony that doesn't currently have an inbound colony ship. This new ship should add some flavour and provide more income than a regular colony ship in exchange for its minimal capacity. A quick example...

Code: [Select]

Mauretania class Luxury Liner    27400 tons     836 Crew     1118.8 BP      TCS 548  TH 1650  EM 0
3010 km/s     Armour 1-80     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maintenance Capacity 26 MSP    Max Repair 38 MSP
Passengers 1250    Cargo Handling Multiplier 10    

Commercial Ion Engine (11)    Power 150    Fuel Use 7%    Signature 150    Armour 0    Exp 1%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 93.8 billion km   (360 days at full power)

This design is classed as a commercial vessel for maintenance purposesSteve

Looks entertaining, be nice to see a few space liners plowing the space lanes.  Will they avoid comets and other icey bodies or can I expect the Titanic to hit a comet?  

[Steve Walmsley]

Looks entertaining, be nice to see a few space liners plowing the space lanes.  Will they avoid comets and other icey bodies or can I expect the Titanic to hit a comet?  

I did consider having unrest at both the starting and destination pop if a liner is destroyed, due to the presumed influence of the passengers. If 50,000 colonists cop it, then the glitterati will presumably express their profound sadness at the demise of the hoi polloi and quickly move on

Steve

[Steve Walmsley]

Once you have alien components in your stockpile, whether they be from a friendly alien race, a ruin or an scrapped alien vessel, an alternative to using them within your own ships will be to try and learn tech data by taking them apart. I haven't decided on the exact mechanics of this yet but I'll post the details to this thread when I do. Obviously you will lose the component in this case and the chance of gaining data will be limited so you will have to make a choice between using the component to gain a tactical advantage or expending it in an effort to gain some tech data.

I have added the ability to disassemble components in an attempt to gain tech knowledge. When this takes place, you have a 5% chance to gain each background tech related to the component. So if there are three associated background techs, you get three rolls and you might even get all 3. As you can retrieve components by scrapping captured alien ships in v4.3, this new disassembly option replaces the existing chance to gain tech directly from scrapping alien ships. Once the ship is scrapped then you can use the components in your own ships or risk dissasembling them for the chance of tech data.

If the background tech you gain is too high for you, you will get the next level of the tech. For example, if you scrap a 30cm laser and make the roll for the focal size, you will get the 30cm tech if you already know the 25cm tech. Otherwise you will get the tech above the one you already know (20cm if you know 15cm, etc.).

Steve

[welchbloke]

All of this new functionality is going to need testing.  Are you going to release a Beta version?