Advice on Initial Research

[Father Tim]

What I did in my last game was a conventional (ie 0 RP) start, so that doesn't help with tech selection.  Before Steve added that option, the way I spent initial Reserach Points was as follows:

Buy increased Research Production until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Buy increased Mining Rate until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Buy increased Construction Rate until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Buy improved Fuel Efficiency until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Spend the rest on as much of the following as I could afford:  Improved Command & Control, Troop Transport, Sorium Harvester, Asteroid Mining Module, Fuel Storage - Small, Engineering Section - Small, Crew Quarters - Small, Flag Bridge, Damage Control, Salvage Module 500, Command Module, Fuel Storage - Tiny, Engineering Section - Tiny


The point is, there is no wrong answer.  It doesn't matter what tech you start with (if any at all), as it really only changes the 'flavour' of your game.  And you can change it back by researching a different 'flavour' as you go along.  You can't 'win' Aurora - (there's a small chance you can 'lose' by being exterminated) - you can only play it.  The only way to know which tech YOU (as opposed to me, or Beer, or John) should choose is to just choose some and get playing.

[Balibar (OP)]

What I did in my last game was a conventional (ie 0 RP) start, so that doesn't help with tech selection.  Before Steve added that option, the way I spent initial Reserach Points was as follows:

Buy increased Research Production until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Buy increased Mining Rate until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Buy increased Construction Rate until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Buy improved Fuel Efficiency until there is not enough RP left for the next level
Spend the rest on as much of the following as I could afford:  Improved Command & Control, Troop Transport, Sorium Harvester, Asteroid Mining Module, Fuel Storage - Small, Engineering Section - Small, Crew Quarters - Small, Flag Bridge, Damage Control, Salvage Module 500, Command Module, Fuel Storage - Tiny, Engineering Section - Tiny

That is an interesting approach.  So is the approach of letting the game give you tech and playing the hand you are dealt.  

Fair enough.  I am going to pick something and go with it.  You are all telling me that the decisions are not critical.

[Erik L]

That is an interesting approach.  So is the approach of letting the game give you tech and playing the hand you are dealt.  

Fair enough.  I am going to pick something and go with it.  You are all telling me that the decisions are not critical.

It is only critical in that you (or the game) may omit a critical tech line. Then you are in a technical deficit.

Imagine this, you research up your missile tech so that you have phenomenal missiles at the start. But you neglect missile reload rates. So your size 6 doomsday missiles can only fire once per minute. That can be a severe disadvantage.

[Balibar (OP)]

Code: [Select]

Belknap II class Scout    6500 tons     615 Crew     964.4 BP      TCS 130  TH 840  EM 0
6461 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 2-31     Shields 0-0     Sensors 36/36/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 338%    IFR: 4.7%    Maint Capacity 93 MSP    Max Repair 169 MSP    Est Time: 0.16 Years

J6500(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 6500 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 (14)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 86.5 billion km   (155 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor S126-R87 (1)     GPS 10962     Range 109.6m km    Resolution 87
Thermal Sensor TH6-36 (1)     Sensitivity 36     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-36 (1)     Sensitivity 36     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


I have some questions about this ship.  

1.  What is the function?  I am guessing this Scout is used to explore a newly found jump gate and see what is on the other side.  Once the ship gets on the other side, where do you go from there?  Do you perform a series of move to planet?  Does one have to get close to a planet to see the atmosphere?  Does one have to get near the planet to see if anyone else is living there?  

2.  This ship is significantly faster than your other ships.  Is this for quickness in exploration or the need for a fast getaway if you find somebody?  

3. Could you explain the choice in sensors?  I believe this is a size 6 antenna.  I believe this is a higher tech on sensitivity, but what specific goal did you have in picking this antenna size?  

4. I noticed that many of your designs have an exact match of ship size and jump engine size.  Also the ship sizes are round numbers.  How do you do that?  I believe you have to research a specific engine size, but how do you know how big it will be before you research it?  Or, do you pick a size, stuff the engine in and fill up the ship design to fit?  If the latter, what do you use to fill up the last few tons?

[Erik L]

Code: [Select]

Belknap II class Scout    6500 tons     615 Crew     964.4 BP      TCS 130  TH 840  EM 0
6461 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 2-31     Shields 0-0     Sensors 36/36/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 338%    IFR: 4.7%    Maint Capacity 93 MSP    Max Repair 169 MSP    Est Time: 0.16 Years

J6500(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 6500 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 (14)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 86.5 billion km   (155 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor S126-R87 (1)     GPS 10962     Range 109.6m km    Resolution 87
Thermal Sensor TH6-36 (1)     Sensitivity 36     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-36 (1)     Sensitivity 36     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  36m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


I have some questions about this ship.  

1.  What is the function?  I am guessing this Scout is used to explore a newly found jump gate and see what is on the other side.  Once the ship gets on the other side, where do you go from there?  Do you perform a series of move to planet?  Does one have to get close to a planet to see the atmosphere?  Does one have to get near the planet to see if anyone else is living there?  

It is a fleet scout. The main purpose is to stay with the fleet and act as an early warning platform. The larger scanners give me a greater range for detecting things.

I've not used it as a JP explorer, since I tend to use survey vessels for that. But it could very well be used to scout a ring or JP.

2.  This ship is significantly faster than your other ships.  Is this for quickness in exploration or the need for a fast getaway if you find somebody?  

In the case of the fleet getting jumped and possibly annihilated, the scouts can hang back and escape if necessary.

3. Could you explain the choice in sensors?  I believe this is a size 6 antenna.  I believe this is a higher tech on sensitivity, but what specific goal did you have in picking this antenna size?  

I let the game pick my starting tech. These are the first generation scanners. My passive tech has increased, but the actives are currently under research. So once they are finished, this class will get a refit.

4. I noticed that many of your designs have an exact match of ship size and jump engine size.  Also the ship sizes are round numbers.  How do you do that?  I believe you have to research a specific engine size, but how do you know how big it will be before you research it?  Or, do you pick a size, stuff the engine in and fill up the ship design to fit?  If the latter, what do you use to fill up the last few tons?

I'll design a jump drive to say 6500 tons. Good size for a survey ship/DD class. Then I'll design a jump capable class with the drive. Fill it out with what I want (weapons/defenses/scanners). If it comes up short on size, say to 6250, I'll round out the remainder with fuel. Especially with survey ships. They can never have too much fuel.

[Balibar (OP)]

Gravsurvey - the only difference from above is the actual sensor, this means that I can build a GE and GV at the same shipyard when it is tooled for either/or.

How do you tool for either/or?  When I tooled my shipyard for buidling the GE, I could only build the GE.  My designs for both differed only in the sensor.

[sloanjh]

Gravsurvey - the only difference from above is the actual sensor, this means that I can build a GE and GV at the same shipyard when it is tooled for either/or.

How do you tool for either/or?  When I tooled my shipyard for buidling the GE, I could only build the GE.  My designs for both differed only in the sensor.

This might require an expensive survey ship design.  If you look on the DAC tab of the F5 screen, you'll see a box in the lower left bottom area that lists other classes that can be built if a SY is tooled for this class.  This follows an arcane formula that's something like the refit cost being 10-20% of the cost of the currently-tooled-for class (don't take that literally - it's almost certainly wrong in details).  So if your GeoSurvey ship is so expensive (probably due to engines) that the sensors are only the magic percentage of cost, then the same SY can build GravSurvey ships.

[Balibar (OP)]

This might require an expensive survey ship design.  If you look on the DAC tab of the F5 screen, you'll see a box in the lower left bottom area that lists other classes that can be built if a SY is tooled for this class.  This follows an arcane formula that's something like the refit cost being 10-20% of the cost of the currently-tooled-for class (don't take that literally - it's almost certainly wrong in details).  So if your GeoSurvey ship is so expensive (probably due to engines) that the sensors are only the magic percentage of cost, then the same SY can build GravSurvey ships.

Thanks!  So, in addition to being faster, a more expensive ship can also achieve greater flexibility in using a limited number of shipyards.

[Balibar (OP)]

I've not used it as a JP explorer, since I tend to use survey vessels for that. But it could very well be used to scout a ring or JP.

My current game explained to me why you use this strategy.  The utility of non-jump survey vessels is very limited.  You discover Jump Portals faster than you can make jump gates.  I tried using a Scout to take non-jump Survey vessels across portals until I could make jump capable vessels, but 6 portals overwhelms what I can do.  

Since you seem to play what you are dealt, what do you try to set up as your early shipyard configuration?  If one is limited to 4 yards initially, what do you try to build at the start?  Since Gas Giant harvesting can only be done by ship, I would think one would want one commercial shipyard making Harvesters.  Since Terraforming needs to be started early, I would think one would want one commercial shipyard making Terraformers.  Unless a naval yard can make both the geo-survey vessel and the grav-survey vessel at the same time, one needs two yards for exploration vessels.  I would think one would also need a yard for cruisers.  Following Beersatron's advice, one would also need a naval yard for FACs.  

Beersatron indicated he just set up the yard to meet his needs and had more than 4 yards.  I am curious as to what you do.

[sloanjh]

Beersatron indicated he just set up the yard to meet his needs and had more than 4 yards.  I am curious as to what you do.

Ummmm, you do know you can build SY, right?  They're on the same menu as building mines or construction factories.

This is an important part of the game's strategy - building up SY capacity and retooling them at the appropriate time for the appropriate class.

John

[Balibar (OP)]

Beersatron indicated he just set up the yard to meet his needs and had more than 4 yards.  I am curious as to what you do.

Ummmm, you do know you can build SY, right?  They're on the same menu as building mines or construction factories.

This is an important part of the game's strategy - building up SY capacity and retooling them at the appropriate time for the appropriate class.

John

Yes.  My current game is bottlenecked in this area.  I did too much shipyard activity at the start, ended up with a shortage of neutronium and neutronium has accessibility of 0.2 on Earth in my game.  Erik plays the game as it lies.  Beersatron gives himself what he needs.  I was looking for a compromise where one would use SM at the start to give yourself 4 yards that were most helpful, then plan to build extra yards for more needs.  Of course, I will have to not repeat the mistake of using up all my neutronium on shipyard activity that is not immediately necessary.

[Father Tim]

I use a conventional (pre-TN) start, so I only get one yard.  Now that Steve's added the 'Continual Capacity Increase' option I turn that on right away, and my yard ends up 10,000 to 12,000 tons by the time I get around to building a second one.

The very first ship I design (and build) is a basic Geo survey vessel - one or two engines, geo sensor, fuel, armour.  I keep it small enough to stay under the Maintenance Facilities limit (1000 tons unless I've built more) and send it to survey my home system.  In the mean time, I research & design a larger combined Grav/Geo Survey vessel with a jump engine and retool the yard for that.  Once I have enough* explorers, I retool for a couple of warships (in the aforementioned 10,000 to 12,000 tons range) and build a second yard for my explorers.  I also build a commercial yard** tooled for my colony ships, and therefore able to build my freighters as well.  Later a second commercial yard for my eventual terraformers, asteroid miners, and troop transports (which all use the same template, with only the 'modules' switched, and thus can all be built in the same yard).  Eventually a third naval yard for 'frigates' while upgrading my main yard for 'battleships'.

One thing to keep in mind is that I favour more general ship designs, and far fewer (if any) retooling between disparate classes than other players.  My frigate & battleship yards are almost always retooling for a new class, but it's a new class of 'frigate' or 'battleship' with a very similar design philosophy.  I don't do the 'four missiles cruisers, then four PD destroyers, then four beam cruisers, then twelve improved missile cruisers, then four assault transports, then four . . .' approach taken by many others.


*What constitutes 'enough' varies from game to game.
**With the latest editions, conventional starts get an initial commercial yard as well.

[Balibar (OP)]

I use a conventional (pre-TN) start, so I only get one yard.  Now that Steve's added the 'Continual Capacity Increase' option I turn that on right away, and my yard ends up 10,000 to 12,000 tons by the time I get around to building a second one.

The very first ship I design (and build) is a basic Geo survey vessel - one or two engines, geo sensor, fuel, armour.  I keep it small enough to stay under the Maintenance Facilities limit (1000 tons unless I've built more) and send it to survey my home system.  In the mean time, I research & design a larger combined Grav/Geo Survey vessel with a jump engine and retool the yard for that.  Once I have enough* explorers, I retool for a couple of warships (in the aforementioned 10,000 to 12,000 tons range) and build a second yard for my explorers.  I also build a commercial yard** tooled for my colony ships, and therefore able to build my freighters as well.  Later a second commercial yard for my eventual terraformers, asteroid miners, and troop transports (which all use the same template, with only the 'modules' switched, and thus can all be built in the same yard).  Eventually a third naval yard for 'frigates' while upgrading my main yard for 'battleships'.

One thing to keep in mind is that I favour more general ship designs, and far fewer (if any) retooling between disparate classes than other players.  My frigate & battleship yards are almost always retooling for a new class, but it's a new class of 'frigate' or 'battleship' with a very similar design philosophy.  I don't do the 'four missiles cruisers, then four PD destroyers, then four beam cruisers, then twelve improved missile cruisers, then four assault transports, then four . . .' approach taken by many others.


*What constitutes 'enough' varies from game to game.
**With the latest editions, conventional starts get an initial commercial yard as well.

Thanks!  As I said in my discussion with John, I think my problem is trying to do too much at the beginning.

[Balibar (OP)]

2nd Gen FAC (Fast Attack Craft), the 1st Gen had the size 8 launchers which were too big for my design style

Code: [Select]

Fearless II class Gunboat    1000 tons     56 Crew     176.8 BP      TCS 20  TH 126  EM 0
8400 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 7.2
Annual Failure Rate: 16%    IFR: 0.2%    Maintenance Capacity 55 MSP    Max Repair 52 MSP
Magazine 48    

FAC Plasma Drive (1)    Power 168    Fuel Use 880%    Signature 126    Armour 0    Exp 21%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 30.7 billion km   (42 days at full power)

S4ML BOX - 1 (12)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
AGFC - 1 (1)     Range 19.2m km    Resolution 20
Chisel MK1 (12)  Speed: 33,600 km/s   End: 9.6m    Range: 19.3m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 168 / 100 / 50

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes


I have a question on designing a FAC.  I researched the FAC engine technology and researched a FAC ion engine.  The bare FAC with an engine uses 10 HS or 500 tons.  What are my viable options for a weapon that will fit?  I can't see how my beam weapons will work as I need a sensor, fire control, reactor and a turret.  Are missles the only option?  How about gauss cannon since they don't need a power supply?

[Erik L]

I've not used it as a JP explorer, since I tend to use survey vessels for that. But it could very well be used to scout a ring or JP.

My current game explained to me why you use this strategy.  The utility of non-jump survey vessels is very limited.  You discover Jump Portals faster than you can make jump gates.  I tried using a Scout to take non-jump Survey vessels across portals until I could make jump capable vessels, but 6 portals overwhelms what I can do.  

Since you seem to play what you are dealt, what do you try to set up as your early shipyard configuration?  If one is limited to 4 yards initially, what do you try to build at the start?  Since Gas Giant harvesting can only be done by ship, I would think one would want one commercial shipyard making Harvesters.  Since Terraforming needs to be started early, I would think one would want one commercial shipyard making Terraformers.  Unless a naval yard can make both the geo-survey vessel and the grav-survey vessel at the same time, one needs two yards for exploration vessels.  I would think one would also need a yard for cruisers.  Following Beersatron's advice, one would also need a naval yard for FACs.  

Beersatron indicated he just set up the yard to meet his needs and had more than 4 yards.  I am curious as to what you do.

Initial yards go to survey classes, then warships. Build and expand as needed.