My Newbie AAR

[Hyfrydle (OP)]

Yes it has the right sort of performance, but it is appallingly large for its performance. It looks like you need to research EM Sensitivity as you currently have that at a very low level (5) while you have active sensor strength at a reasonable level of 21 and the effectivness of your sensors is effectively 21*5/10 , so increasing EM Sensitivity will allow you to build smaller sensors for simialr effectiveness . I ususlly get EM Sensitivity to 11 allowing me comparable performance with a Size 5 or 6 sensor.
You will also need resolution 1 FC for any antimissiles with a similar range to the search sensor, if you are not using AMM's then you can manage with a smaller active sensor scaled to the range of the Fire control and defensive beam weapons

What effect do EM sensors have on active sensors I thought they where a seperate thing? I thought by upgrading the active sensor strength that would be enough just another misunderstanding on my part thanks for pointing it out.

[Hawkeye]

What effect do EM sensors have on active sensors I thought they where a seperate thing? I thought by upgrading the active sensor strength that would be enough just another misunderstanding on my part thanks for pointing it out.

EM sensors now affect efficiency of active sensors too. If you look at the design screen for your actives, you´ll notice in the second line "EM Sensor Sensitivity 5" or 6 or 8, whatever your best is at the moment. The better EM Sensor Sensitivity, the more efficient your actives become.

Don´t forget to design a Missile-Fire-Control for anti-missile work (res-1) too.

This design is included in the blog is it ok?

Active Sensor Strength: 210 Sensitivity Modifier: 50%
Sensor Size: 10 HS Sensor HTK: 1
Primary Mode: Resolution: 1 Maximum Range: 1,050,000 km
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 100%
Cost: 210 Crew: 50
Materials Required: 52.5x Duranium 157.5x Uridium

Development Cost for Project: 2100RP

Hm, isn´t this an active sensor? You need a dedicated anti-missile firecontrol for your AMMs, because the rules for resolutions on active sensors are the same as for MFCs. (if target is smaller than resolution, then max. range = range X ((Target size / resolution) x (Target size / resolution))
This means, your anti-ship MFC can target a size 1 target (i.e. a missile) at 126.000.000km x 1/200 x 1/200 = 3150km.
As you might guess, this will do you no good

[Hyfrydle (OP)]

What tech do I need to research to reduce the size of my magazines they are currently as follows:

Capacity: 255     Internal Armour: 4.01 HS     Explosion Chance: 20
Magazine Size: 20 HS    Magazine HTK: 10
Cost: 132.08    Crew: 30
Materials Required: 53.07x Duranium  4.01x Neutronium  75x Tritanium

Development Cost for Project: 1321RP

Or is this design fine. I would need four of these on my AMM ships with size 1 missiles which gives me 1020 missiles.

[Andrew]

In the Missile Technology section there are techs for Magazine efficiency which increases capacity and reducing ammo explosions. Also better armour allows for less material wasted giving HTK.
I normall build size 2 or 3 magazines with 1 HTK , I also don't carry 1020 missiles on a small antimissile Ship

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Agincourt mod 2 class Destroyer Escort    7950 tons     706 Crew     1614.6 BP      TCS 159  TH 450  EM 0
3773 km/s     Armour 5-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 24/33/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 18
Annual Failure Rate: 84%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 762 MSP    Max Repair 168 MSP    Est Time: 2.79 Years
Magazine 630    

Ion Engine E7 (10)    Power 60    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 45    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 129.4 billion km   (396 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher (18)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC1-R1 (6)     Range 1.8m km    Resolution 1
Buckler I (456)  Speed: 30,000 km/s   End: 1.4m    Range: 2.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 290 / 174 / 87

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (1)     GPS 168     Range 1.8m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH3-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km
EM Detection Sensor EM3-33 (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  33m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
I use Size 2 HTK 1 Magazines with a capacity of 36

[Hyfrydle (OP)]

Here is my new Anti-Missile design all comments much appreciated:

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Fly Swatter MK 2 - Copy class Area Defence Cruiser    7550 tons     476 Crew     1131.2 BP      TCS 151  TH 480  EM 0
3178 km/s     Armour 8-34     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 10
Annual Failure Rate: 152%    IFR: 2.1%    Maint Capacity 281 MSP    Max Repair 210 MSP    Est Time: 0.88 Years
Magazine 486    

Ion Engine E8 Military (8)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 119.2 billion km   (434 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC1-R1 AMM MK 1 (1)     Range 1.4m km    Resolution 1

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 MK 1 AMM (1)     GPS 210     Range 1.7m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Going to start work on my anti-ship attack craft next.

[Andrew]

Here is my new Anti-Missile design all comments much appreciated:

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Fly Swatter MK 2 - Copy class Area Defence Cruiser    7550 tons     476 Crew     1131.2 BP      TCS 151  TH 480  EM 0
3178 km/s     Armour 8-34     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 10
Annual Failure Rate: 152%    IFR: 2.1%    Maint Capacity 281 MSP    Max Repair 210 MSP    Est Time: 0.88 Years
Magazine 486    

Ion Engine E8 Military (8)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 119.2 billion km   (434 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC1-R1 AMM MK 1 (1)     Range 1.4m km    Resolution 1

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 MK 1 AMM (1)     GPS 210     Range 1.7m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Going to start work on my anti-ship attack craft next.

The only thing I would do is put in one or more extra FC systems as each system will only let you engage one salvo at a time and if enemy ships are launching several small salvo;s that could be a problem for you

[Hyfrydle (OP)]

Here is my Anti-Ship design the missile showing is the old version the new version is much better:

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Broadsword ASM MK 2 - Copy class Missile Cruiser    9000 tons     688 Crew     1354.4 BP      TCS 180  TH 720  EM 0
4000 km/s     Armour 8-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 20
Annual Failure Rate: 129%    IFR: 1.8%    Maint Capacity 1470 MSP    Max Repair 210 MSP    Est Time: 2.8 Years
Magazine 258    

Ion Engine E8 Military (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 50.0 billion km   (144 days at full power)

Size 2 Missile Launcher ASM (10)    Missile Size 2    Rate of Fire 20
Missile Fire Control FC166-R120 Anti-Ship MK 1 2052 (3)     Range 166.3m km    Resolution 120
Size 2 Anti-ship Missile Deathbringer MK 2 (304)  Speed: 22,400 km/s   End: 18.7m    Range: 25.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 2    TH: 82 / 49 / 24

Active Search Sensor MR336-R200 MK 1 (1)     GPS 42000     Range 336.0m km    Resolution 200

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
I took notice of your post Andrew and added more FC's to this and my AMM design.

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, Anti Ship doesn't necessarily need that many^^
You got pretty good missiles for still using Ion Engines.

[Andrew]

Well, Anti Ship doesn't necessarily need that many^^
You got pretty good missiles for still using Ion Engines.

It depends if you are shooting at big ships then you only really need 1 FC, if you want to be able to deal with a swarm of Gunboats multiple FC are useful . I would probably have had more launchers and less magazine space as I think you need large salvo's to overwhelm defenses rather than sustained fire capacity but that is a matter of opinion

[Hawkeye]

Here is my Anti-Ship design the missile showing is the old version the new version is much better:

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Broadsword ASM MK 2 - Copy class Missile Cruiser    9000 tons     688 Crew     1354.4 BP      TCS 180  TH 720  EM 0
4000 km/s     Armour 8-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 20
Annual Failure Rate: 129%    IFR: 1.8%    Maint Capacity 1470 MSP    Max Repair 210 MSP    Est Time: 2.8 Years
Magazine 258    

Ion Engine E8 Military (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 50.0 billion km   (144 days at full power)

Size 2 Missile Launcher ASM (10)    Missile Size 2    Rate of Fire 20
Missile Fire Control FC166-R120 Anti-Ship MK 1 2052 (3)     Range 166.3m km    Resolution 120
Size 2 Anti-ship Missile Deathbringer MK 2 (304)  Speed: 22,400 km/s   End: 18.7m    Range: 25.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 2    TH: 82 / 49 / 24

Active Search Sensor MR336-R200 MK 1 (1)     GPS 42000     Range 336.0m km    Resolution 200

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
I took notice of your post Andrew and added more FC's to this and my AMM design.

Hm, did you remove some magazines after you defined your ammo-layout, because there are sure a lot more missiles on board than the magazines can hold?

As Andrew, I think you should up the number of launchers.
Personally, I´d rip out two or three engines (usually, I aim for about 25% mass in engines) and use that space for launchers (10 size-2 launchers means, you are using a 9.000t ship to lug around 1.000t of weapons, not counting magazins and sensors/FCs, which doesn´t sound very efficient)
My current designs use those 25% for engines, 40% for weapons (incl. magazines/FCs) and 15% to 20% on defenses (armor/shields)

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Hamburg class Missile Destroyer    7500 tons     707 Crew     1204.16 BP      TCS 150  TH 240  EM 480
3200 km/s     Armour 5-34     Shields 16-300     Sensors 1/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 99%    IFR: 1.4%    Maint Capacity 452 MSP    Max Repair 108 MSP    Est Time: 2.4 Years
Magazine 378    

MTU Typ 60/50 Ionentriebwerk (8)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 60.0 billion km   (217 days at full power)
Mannesmann Typ Gamma/2 Schutzschild (8)   Total Fuel Cost  128 Litres per day

Speerwerfer II ASR-6 Raketenwerfer 69 (5)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 60
Telefunken Typ 97/85 Raketenleitsystem 68 (1)     Range 97.9m km    Resolution 85
Wurfspeer III ASR-6 (63)  Speed: 24,000 km/s   End: 35.1m    Range: 50.6m km   WH: 5    Size: 6    TH: 128 / 76 / 38

Telefunken Typ 86/100 Radarsystem 68 (1)     GPS 10800     Range 86.4m km    Resolution 100
Siemens Typ 8 EM-Sensor 68 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
26.7% mass on engines
20% mass on missile launchers
16% mass on magazines
20 % mass on armor/shields
9% mass on FCS/sensors

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Köln class Destroyer Escort    7500 tons     618 Crew     1315.8 BP      TCS 150  TH 240  EM 300
3200 km/s     Armour 4-34     Shields 10-300     Sensors 1/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 8
Annual Failure Rate: 64%    IFR: 0.9%    Maint Capacity 768 MSP    Max Repair 240 MSP    Est Time: 2.66 Years
Magazine 458    

MTU Typ 60/50 Ionentriebwerk (8)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 60.0 billion km   (217 days at full power)
Mannesmann Typ Gamma/2 Schutzschild (5)   Total Fuel Cost  80 Litres per day

Pfeilwerfer II ARR-1 Werfer 69 (8)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Telefunken Typ 2/1 Raketenleitsystem 68 (2)     Range 2.0m km    Resolution 1
Pfeil II ARR-1 (458)  Speed: 31,800 km/s   End: 2.3m    Range: 4.5m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 212 / 127 / 63

Telefunken 1,9/1 Radarsystem 68 (1)     GPS 240     Range 1.9m km    Resolution 1
Siemens Typ 8 EM-Sensor 68 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
26.7% mass on engines
20% mass on magazines
5% mass on missile launchers
23% mass on FCS/sensors (as an escort, this needs long range anti-missile sensors, which are large)
15 % mass on defenses (armor/shields)

BTW, I didn´t calculate those numbers. On the design screen, Component Summary tab, there are tables that list those them.


P.S. Yes, shipdesign is not so much a since but an art, with personel preferences thrown in for good

[mavikfelna]

One thing I'm noticing, you're units have very different speeds. It's generally a good idea to keep your fleet speeds uniform. Escorts can use little extra speed to race ahead of the main body for extended interception of enemy missiles but that's generally it.

Scouts, fighters and gunboats should all be as fast as you can make them and operate independent of the fleet. Supply ships, jump tenders and other support units can be slower if they're not intended to keep up with the main fleet.

--Mav

[Hyfrydle (OP)]

Arrived back from my hols and now can't decide if I should continue this AAR or start a new one with the lessons I've learned using the latest version. The Tau Ceti aliens are much too tough for my current tech and also the organisation of my empire leaves alot to be desired.

In my last game before my hols I did almost hold my own against the Tau Ceti but the whole missile salvo thing confuses me. Can anyone explain how it works and and strategies for using missiles both AMM and ASM in battles.

Thanks also please let me know if you have thoughts on my decision to conclude the AAR.

[Hawkeye]

Arrived back from my hols and now can't decide if I should continue this AAR or start a new one with the lessons I've learned using the latest version. The Tau Ceti aliens are much too tough for my current tech and also the organisation of my empire leaves alot to be desired.

In my last game before my hols I did almost hold my own against the Tau Ceti but the whole missile salvo thing confuses me. Can anyone explain how it works and and strategies for using missiles both AMM and ASM in battles.

Thanks also please let me know if you have thoughts on my decision to conclude the AAR.

Ok, regarding missile salvos:
A single salvo is the number of missiles fired from a number of missile launchers, which are all assigned to a single missile-fire-control
Then there is, what I like to call volley. This is the total amount of missiles, a fleet can launch at the enemy.

There are pros and cons to the size of salvos:
If your enemy has a lot of AMM-launchers, but very few AMM-Missile-Fire-Controls, lots of small salvos are your friend, as he probably won´t have time enough to launch against all of your salvos.

Example:
Your missile-cruiser mounts 8 launchers and 4 MFCs. Your fleet has 3 cruisers.
This means, you can lauch a total of 12 salvos of 2 missiles each --> volley size: 24.
If your enemy can launch a total of 20 AMMs per 10 seconds, but only has 2 MFCs for them, he can only engage two of your salvos per 10 sec.
If your salvos have to face his AMMs for, say 40 seconds, this means he can only engage 8 of your salvos, the other 4 will go in without being targeted by AMMs.
In addition, while the enemy is targeting salvo 7 and 8, your next volley may allready be inside his AMM envelope, thus even more salvos will go in unengaged in your second voley.

The drawback of this tactic is, of course, you need a lot of Missile-Fire-Controls yourself, which means space, that could be used for more launchers, if you used larger-but-less salvos.

In the example above, removing two of the MFCs could enable you to put two additonal launchers on your cruisers, giving you 6 salvos of 5 missiles each --> volley size: 30

I don´t think there is much debate about voley-size. The bigger the better (up to a point, where wastage/overkill sets in)


Re. continuing or starting new:
I´d say continue. Your AAR was/is about what mistakes to avoid and making those mistakes and showing their consequences is probably the best way of doing this.
Oh, and fighting against impossible odds can be fun

[Hyfrydle (OP)]

Going to stick with the AAR can anyone tell me how to load missiles on a ship so I can transport them to the frontline.

[Beersatron]

Going to stick with the AAR can anyone tell me how to load missiles on a ship so I can transport them to the frontline.

Have you made a Class and given it the flag of Colier?

I generally take a Cruiser hull, remove the launchers and fire control and maybe a layer of armor or two and then cram in as many magazines as possible. Set the default missile loadout as you would for a fighting vessel. When you are giving the ship orders you will extra options to 'reload' a fleet. If the Colier and the ship(s) it is going to reload have the same missile loadout then it will transfer then over.

You can also manually transfer missiles on the Ship List screen (cant remember correct name or shortcut).