Author Topic: Newtonian Aurora  (Read 147042 times)

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Offline luarvic

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #945 on: February 15, 2012, 03:18:15 AM »
Wow, guys, dont you think this new Aurora goes far to difficult to play? I mean im already using windows calculator for sensors, but tanking railgun munition with fighters its just crazy you know
 

Offline procyon

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #946 on: February 15, 2012, 03:30:02 AM »
There are two types of individuals in this world.

Those that rise to a challenge, and those that run from them.....

But this one will be a really big hurdle.... ;)
... and I will show you fear in a handful of dust ...
 

Offline Elouda

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #947 on: February 15, 2012, 03:39:58 AM »
Maybe I'm just a masochist, but when it comes to games like Aurora, the steeper the learning cliff, the better...
 

Offline Panopticon

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #948 on: February 15, 2012, 03:41:17 AM »
To be honest I like it a lot in theory, and the discussions are fun to follow, but in practice i think I might find myself overwhelmed as well. We'll see.
 

Offline ollobrains

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #949 on: February 15, 2012, 05:41:18 AM »
i can get a learning curve if some basic concepts are included
 

Offline jseah

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #950 on: February 15, 2012, 10:05:48 AM »
Wow, guys, dont you think this new Aurora goes far to difficult to play? I mean im already using windows calculator for sensors, but tanking railgun munition with fighters its just crazy you know
That's just a crazy idea.  Not at all complex, might not even be feasible. 

Games aren't too complex until you have to solve three body problems.  =)  After that, ok, I might be willing to admit its too hard for me. 
(You want your moon sized battlestation?  Well, have fun predicting the impact of your parking orbit around the gas giant on the nearby moon or you'll be dealing with a moon-sized impact)
 

Offline Sloshmonger

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #951 on: February 15, 2012, 11:06:17 AM »
(You want your moon sized battlestation?  Well, have fun predicting the impact of your parking orbit around the gas giant on the nearby moon or you'll be dealing with a moon-sized impact)

How soon do you think Steve can include this in NA?
 

Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #952 on: February 15, 2012, 01:17:02 PM »
Gravity is so far not included.
Neither will anyone realistically be building such a huge ship.
 

Offline ollobrains

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #953 on: February 15, 2012, 02:52:29 PM »
is there anywhere to download newtrowinan aurora ?
 

Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #954 on: February 16, 2012, 02:58:37 AM »
Once it's done, there probably will.
 

Offline ollobrains

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #955 on: February 16, 2012, 03:59:19 AM »
and its not done yet so its not downloadable and given steves apparent time constraints im guessing end of year at least ah well ill keep putting ideas and comments on as he posts his dev blogs
 

Offline jseah

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #956 on: February 19, 2012, 07:07:41 PM »
Extending the energy calculation a bit more:

Steve has said that the highest exhaust velocity will be just under c.  For simplicity's sake, I will assume the highest is exactly c and calculate it from that. 

1MN = accel 1ton at 1km/s/s

Minimum thrust modifier (0.1) = (4 ^ 0.1) / 4 = 0.287 fuel consumption modifier
2500ton engine = 2500/50 = 50% fuel consumption

At c exhaust velocity: 1litre (1kg) of fuel will require 300MN to reach c in 1 second (newtonian calculations)
300MN per litre per second = 1/300 litres per MN per second = 1/5 litres per MN per hour
Baseline tech: 1.39 litres per MN per hour (3s.f.)

1 litre of fuel moving at c = 45E15 J

Obviously, we're not about to stick a 2.5kton engine on a missile so fuel efficiency and thus exhaust velocity is going to be alot lower, but it looks like 0.8 c missiles might be possible end-game and if you really really want to do it, ships past the speed of light could be doable but inefficient. 
 

Offline jseah

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #957 on: February 20, 2012, 03:57:21 PM »
Given the calculations in exhaust velocity and energy values of fuel, I would like to resurrect the idea of relativistic missiles. 

Please don't say that they are inefficient compared with nukes. 

Relativistic missiles are faster: less reaction time
Cheaper: fuel is more plentiful compared to other things
More deadly: with 20% speed of light achievable by early-mid game and near-light at end, relativistic missiles make nukes obsolete past the first three or four tech levels. 

They're also simpler, having no warhead at all.  Engine and fuel, that's it. 

You could even have one all-purpose missile.  Fragmentation for anti-ship and anti-missile work.  Disable detonation charge for anti-planet. 
Won't be as efficient as it could be (anti-missile needs high accel, which has lower delta-v), but eh, logistics savings might be worth it. 
 

Offline ollobrains

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #958 on: February 20, 2012, 05:50:41 PM »
relatistivic missiles ofr the reasons u have outlined are reasonable well have to see if they make their way into game
 

Offline bean

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Re: Newtonian Aurora
« Reply #959 on: February 20, 2012, 07:20:01 PM »
The biggest issue with flitting about at high fractions of c is acceleration.  For tactical combat, I highly doubt that missiles will be used at long enough ranges to make those sort of velocities.  Yes, I know they can pull much higher accelerations then humans can, but how much higher?  Even at 1000 m/s, it will take a missile 83 hours to reach c, during which it will cover about 41 light-hours.  That's an extreme case, but there is a limit to how much acceleration an object can take, particularly when supported not by a more-or-less uniform field, but by an engine.  For strategic combat, this is less of an issue, as you can launch from whatever range you choose.
There are two ways to limit the use of relativistic missiles.  The first is to apply the relativistic rocket equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_rocket) to objects near c.  A good point to start applying that might be at exhaust velocities around .4c, with mass ratios above 1.5.  This prevents the object in question from ever achieving lightspeed, or even cheaply getting to a good fraction thereof.  For example, take an object with a mass ratio of e and an exhaust velocity of c.  Conventional rocket science suggests that it will have a delta-V of c, but in actuality, it will only reach about .76c. 
The second is to apply an accuracy penalty to missiles at high velocity relative to the target.  This is to simulate that the missile simply doesn't have time to respond when closing at high fractions of the speed of light.
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