3rd Edition Rules

[DizzyFoxkit (OP)]

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Starfire Rules? 3rd and 4th edition would be nice, but I'll settle for one or the other. I only ask because an hour + of google searching turned up nothing.

[Paul M]

3rdR is out of print, and unfortunately to play with the 3rdR rules requires you get multiple physical products none of which are in print.

But you need:
-- 3rdE starfire boxed set (this has the Imperial Starfire rulebook) for the empire building basic rules.
-- 3rdR Starfire book for the revised tactical rules and the tech items for TL 1 to 9 or 10.
-- the PDF file "Sky Marshal 2"  this is an update to Imperial Starfire adding in a new economic model and updating the NPRs.  You can buy this directly from Marvin Lamb.  Unfortunately it isn't that useful without Imperial Starfire due to fact it assumes you have Imperial Starfire and thus only changes the relevent rule without talking about the others.
-- the PDF file "Unified Tech Manual" is not necessary but it is worth it.  I have heard that you can buy this also from Marvin Lamb.

The first two you need to find in a gaming store in their back dusty corner.  There are also other things that if you can get that are good:  Alkeda Dawn, The Stars at War and Crusade.  The PDF files "ISW4" and "Insurrection" I would think you can get from Marvin Lamb.  ISW4 is unfortunately unplayable...it has fleets that are so huge unless you have dedicated gaming table and several weekends your chance of even playing the beginning battles of the war are slim.  It is a fun read and adds a lot of understanding to the books as it covers the details of the battles a lot more than the books do.

Galactic Starfire (4thE Starfire) and the later products I would assume you can buy from Marvin Lamb and should be on the Starfire Design Studio webpage.  I'm not sure what version they may be at currently it might be 6thE or something.

[DizzyFoxkit (OP)]

Thanks for the information Paul,
Would it be possible for me to get the name of the 3rd edition?
Also, what is the general opinion on this board about the newer editions? (5th and 6th?)

[Paul M]

I think the 3rdE box set is just called starfire.  I'll look tonight and double check.  Added in Edit:  I checked my box version is "Imperial Starfire" as others have said.  If memory serves I bought it and the 3rdR book together.

My personal opinion of 4th Edition is rather mixed, there are good things in it and stuff that I don't like so much.  I like the changes to ship costs, and the research changes.  The weapons though I find too bland, they are too balanced (if that makes any sense).  It is like generic beam weapon 1, 2 and 3 rather than laser, force and energy beams.

The biggest problem with any version of starfire outside of 3rdR is that you don't have Starfire Assistant and that means a lot of book keeping you have to do either on paper or with a home built spreadsheet.  The spreadsheet solution runs into trouble when you have explored 20 systems since at that point you have 200+ lines in the system listing (it is about 10 lines per system on average) that you have to scroll up and down.  Trying to track 350 ships would also be a major pain.  It doesn't mean you can't do it...but it is a lot of work which makes you appreciate starfire assistant more, believe me.

I would suggest giving the newer version a go just because it is easier to get it and it is one unified package, but I stopped my solo 4thE campaign when I hit the first NPR and realized I had to double my existing spreadsheets.  I honestly wonder if just using pen and paper would not in the end be easier...but then you have to recalculate the income every turn as growth is per turn.   I could never interest anyone in a 4thE campaign not because of the rules, changes or whatever but due to the lack of computer support.  I played in a number of PBEM starfire campaigns with spreadsheets: it does work but the SM has a lot more work to do, and so to does the player.

[Tregonsee]

There is a brand new system that just came out.  Based on what I have been reading on their board, it may have a few kinks to still work out, but it may start from Earth, so it is smaller/slower to begin with.

[boggo2300]

My copy of the 3rd edition box definately 100% did not have Imperial Starfire in it, I'm pretty sure it was in a second box originally

Matt

[Starslayer_D]

It was two boxes. Imperial Starfire had diagrams extra etc. Starfire had maps. Both came with countersheets.
§rd Revised was a nice booklet. SM2 was a PDF, print yourself and changed a lot economically, diplomatically (more complex and interresting NPR's), and CFN wise.

UTM was the first result of the redesign group for 3rd. The unified rules manual never made it, and all other 3rd products where taken off the market at the same time.

I leave it to others to unravel what went on... But it was a loss to the Starfire community that 3rd was stopped and the rifting. But too many partisans involved, and other issues, so enough of it, I don't want to open a can of worms.

4rth and later editions I would play if there was a decent spreadsheet allreaddy around. I don't care about 'build your own' and the whole tech tree affair lacks a diagram showing how what is where connected, so too much of a hssle for me personally. Thus I play still 3rd edition. It's closest to the various novels, and to the pile of products I have, and it has a good computer support program wich makes bookkeeping for larger universes possible.

[DizzyFoxkit (OP)]

Ok, my local gaming store doesn't seem to have a copy of 3rd Edition. So I'm stuck with one of the latter editions for now. Do you think Steve would mind if a friend and I created our own "Starfire Assistant" to help with the book keeping load that sounds like it will be a nightmare?

[Erik L]

Ok, my local gaming store doesn't seem to have a copy of 3rd Edition. So I'm stuck with one of the latter editions for now. Do you think Steve would mind if a friend and I created our own "Starfire Assistant" to help with the book keeping load that sounds like it will be a nightmare?

It's not Steve that would mind, but Marvin Lamb. This is a question better asked on the official Starfire site I think.

[MWadwell]

It was two boxes. Imperial Starfire had diagrams extra etc. Starfire had maps. Both came with countersheets.
§rd Revised was a nice booklet. SM2 was a PDF, print yourself and changed a lot economically, diplomatically (more complex and interresting NPR's), and CFN wise.

UTM was the first result of the redesign group for 3rd. The unified rules manual never made it, and all other 3rd products where taken off the market at the same time.

Here are the articles on 3rd edition from Board Game Geek:
Tactical Rulebook (aka 3R) - http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/20432/starfire-3rd-edition
If you have a look at the image , you will see that the image is actually from the 1998 Revised edition.

Strategic Rules (known as Imperial Starfire (aka ISF)) - http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/2893/imperial-starfire



I've just had a look at Amazon (both the US and UK versions), and ISF is going from $190 - which is pretty expensive.....

[Erik L]

I've just had a look at Amazon (both the US and UK versions), and ISF is going from $190 - which is pretty expensive.....

Maybe it's time to ebay my copy.

[MWadwell]

Maybe it's time to ebay my copy.

Maybe it's time for Marvin to re-print some......

[Steve Walmsley]

Ok, my local gaming store doesn't seem to have a copy of 3rd Edition. So I'm stuck with one of the latter editions for now. Do you think Steve would mind if a friend and I created our own "Starfire Assistant" to help with the book keeping load that sounds like it will be a nightmare?

I have no problem with it at all. The issue may be getting permission from the owners of Starfire. Aurora came into being because I was threatened with legal action if I continued to expand Starfire Assistant. While that was very annoying at the time, it proved to be an extremely good thing in the long run

Steve

[Steve Walmsley]

Here are the articles on 3rd edition from Board Game Geek:
Tactical Rulebook (aka 3R) - http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/20432/starfire-3rd-edition
If you have a look at the image , you will see that the image is actually from the 1998 Revised edition.

Strategic Rules (known as Imperial Starfire (aka ISF)) - http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/2893/imperial-starfire



I've just had a look at Amazon (both the US and UK versions), and ISF is going from $190 - which is pretty expensive.....

I have Starfire 3rd edition, Starfire 3rd edition revised, Imperial Starfire, Stars at War, Sky Marshal #2, Crusade, First Contact, Alkelda Dawn, ISW4, Insurrection, UTM and (dare I mention) the Third Edition Unified Rules . Also some Nexus magazines that have Starfire content. I don't think I could bring myself to sell any of the printed manuals though.

Steve

[Starslayer_D]

Ditto.

sorry