Early beam destroyers

[Galwail (OP)]

Yes, this is another "My very first combat ship, will I get absolutely destroyed in the first combat?" thread  Are these two designs any good? Do they have any chance at all against missile alpha strikes? Aren't they too slow for beam ships? Shouldn't I drop those small shields and take more engineering spaces/maintenance storage for more on-field repairs?

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Broadsword class Destroyer    8 000 tons     777 Crew     1349 BP      TCS 160  TH 240  EM 240
3000 km/s     Armour 10-35     Shields 8-300     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 36
Maint Life 6.9 Years     MSP 632    AFR 85%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 23    5YR 347    Max Repair 54 MSP

Ion Engine E8 (8)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 70.3 billion km   (271 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (4)   Total Fuel Cost  64 Litres per day

15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (9)    Range 180 000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S04 96-3000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 192 000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (6)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR12-R80 (70%) (1)     GPS 1920     Range 12.9m km    Resolution 80
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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Socrates class Destroyer Escort    8 000 tons     670 Crew     1382.8 BP      TCS 160  TH 240  EM 240
3000 km/s     Armour 9-35     Shields 8-300     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 15     PPV 35.4
Maint Life 4.82 Years     MSP 594    AFR 93%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 42    5YR 633    Max Repair 108 MSP

Ion Engine E8 (8)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 70.3 billion km   (271 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (4)   Total Fuel Cost  64 Litres per day

Twin 12cm C4 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (3x2)    Range 120 000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 3    ROF 5        4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S03 72-3000 (1)    Max Range: 144 000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31
Fire Control S08 48-12000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 96 000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (6)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 24     Range 1.4m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[Theokrat]

Yes, this is another "My very first combat ship, will I get absolutely destroyed in the first combat?" thread  Are these two designs any good? Do they have any chance at all against missile alpha strikes?

Against a large alpha strike? No chance at all I am afraid. Reasonably you could expect enemy missiles with a speed of say 30k km/s. So your ship might down maybe 2 missiles per tick.

Aren't they too slow for beam ships?

Yeah, unless you wish to camp on a jump point. They are unlikely to close in with enemy shis.

Shouldn't I drop those small shields and take more engineering spaces/maintenance storage for more on-field repairs?

Or just drop the shields and get faster. Repair capacity is actually quite large already, depending on what you wnat to do with the ships-

[Galwail (OP)]

Repair capacity is actually quite large already, depending on what you wnat to do with the ships-

Don't know . . .  fight stuff?   

Or just drop the shields and get faster.

I can boost them by another 1000 km/s, but I don't know if I can go much higher than that.  Engines on those ships already take 33% of the space 

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Broadsword class Destroyer    9 000 tons     870 Crew     1531.6 BP      TCS 180  TH 360  EM 0
4000 km/s     Armour 10-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 36
Maint Life 6.28 Years     MSP 691    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 30    5YR 452    Max Repair 54 MSP

Ion Engine E8 (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 62.5 billion km   (180 days at full power)

15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (9)    Range 180 000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 3    ROF 10        6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S04 96-3000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 192 000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (6)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR12-R80 (70%) (1)     GPS 1920     Range 12.9m km    Resolution 80
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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Socrates class Destroyer Escort    9 000 tons     759 Crew     1562.2 BP      TCS 180  TH 360  EM 0
4000 km/s     Armour 9-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 12/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 15     PPV 35.4
Maint Life 4.2 Years     MSP 597    AFR 117%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 54    5YR 813    Max Repair 108 MSP

Ion Engine E8 (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 62.5 billion km   (180 days at full power)

Twin 12cm C4 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (3x2)    Range 120 000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 8-8     RM 3    ROF 5        4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S03 72-3000 (1)    Max Range: 144 000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31
Fire Control S08 48-12000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 96 000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (6)     Total Power Output 27    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 24     Range 1.4m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[TheDeadlyShoe]

33% is not /that/ high. You need to be pretty fast! If you arn't faster than the enemy  ship, you're pretty much useless... unless the designed role of the ship is mostly as an anti-missile escort and less as a secondary warship.  It also greatly increases the capabilities of certain beam weapons, particularly railguns.

I would mention that you should primarily be using short range res-1 active sensors.  There's little point to mounting larger range sensors, since you can't hurt anything outside beam range anyway. You probably want something heftier than the MR1-R1 on the Socrates though;  it will have trouble seeing missiles in a timely manner.

I think mostly it seems you're not quite sure what you want to use these designs for, except in the vague sense that you need a beam warship.  If you want them to protect a planetary asset, or a particular class of missile warships, design them accordingly.

Some example ion-age beam destroyers:

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Invincible class Paladin    5,000 tons     519 Crew     844 BP      TCS 100  TH 600  EM 0
6000 km/s     Armour 6-26     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 18
Maint Life 3.03 Years     MSP 211    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 34    5YR 517    Max Repair 144 MSP

Ion Jet (10)    Power 60    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 90,000 Litres    Range 32.4 billion km   (62 days at full power)

Heavy Blast Cannon (3x4)    Range 120,000km     TS: 6000 km/s     Power 9-3     RM 4    ROF 15        3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
128/6 Boresight (1)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor (2)     Total Power Output 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Z-Band Scanner (1)     GPS 20     Range 2.1m km    Resolution 1
Z-Band Beacon (1)     GPS 2     Range 170k km    Resolution 1This is a dedicated attack ship, designed to run down enemy ships while shooting down or absorbing attacks directed at it. Therefore, it mounts huge engines and few frills. Railguns have an advantage in small designs such as this, since on fast ships they can still function in both roles without huge or redundant fire controls.  So despite mounting no explicit antimissile capability, it is still capable of defending itself or others.

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Vigilance class Escort Cruiser    3,000 tons     251 Crew     514.8 BP      TCS 60  TH 132  EM 0
2200 km/s     Armour 5-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 23.55
Maint Life 3.58 Years     MSP 134    AFR 57%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 16    5YR 241    Max Repair 115 MSP
Magazine 45   

Type 17 Thruster (2)    Power 66    Fuel Use 96%    Signature 66    Armour 0    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 60,000 Litres    Range 37.5 billion km   (197 days at full power)

Gladius NUV Blaster (4x1)    Range 90,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
Type 48 Vanguard (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 13.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Torpedo Rail (9)    Missile Size 5    Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes    MF Reload 6.2 hours
Torpedo Guidance (1)     Range 8.8m km    Resolution 70
T-20 (9)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 8.2m    Range: 9.9m km   WH: 9    Size: 5    TH: 80 / 48 / 24

Quantum-Slave Controller (1)     GPS 16     Range 1.8m km    Resolution 1
This class is designed to defend large motherships and planets.  It doesn't even attempt to be faster than other ships. Since its light anti-missile lasers lack range, it mounts a rack of heavy short range missiles to even the odds. 

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Spruance class Destroyer Escort    9,000 tons     1003 Crew     1621.5 BP      TCS 180  TH 720  EM 0
4000 km/s     Armour 3-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 64
Maint Life 2.56 Years     MSP 563    AFR 129%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 120    5YR 1805    Max Repair 384 MSP

Rolls Royce Ion Drive (12)    Power 60    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 57.1 billion km   (165 days at full power)

Triple 15cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (4x3)    Range 240,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 18-9     RM 4    ROF 10        6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
SN/SPG-9 Beam Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Large Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor (2)     Total Power Output 36    Armour 0    Exp 5%

SN/SPS-10 Missile Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 63     Range 6.9m km    Resolution 1
Steve's Spruance-class destroyer from the Space Race campaign is directly comparable to your ships in size and speed. Relatively speaking, it sacrifices armor to mount a huge long range laser array with a maximized FC to match.  IIRC, it's designed to escort the huge missile cruisers and fleet carriers of that campaign.

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Cerberus class Monitor    9,000 tons     1048 Crew     1724 BP      TCS 180  TH 720  EM 0
4000 km/s     Armour 8-38     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 19     PPV 48
Maint Life 18.62 Years     MSP 2275    AFR 34%    IFR 0.5%    1YR 12    5YR 187    Max Repair 96 MSP

Rolls Royce RR80 Magneto-Plasma Drive (9)    Power 80    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 80    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 33.3 billion km   (96 days at full power)

20cm C4 Ultraviolet Laser (8)    Range 320,000km     TS: 6250 km/s     Power 10-4     RM 4    ROF 15        10 10 10 10 8 6 5 5 4 4
SN/SPG-7 Beam Fire Control (2)    Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor (7)     Total Power Output 42    Armour 0    Exp 5%

SN/SPN-27 Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 1680     Range 30.4m km    Resolution 60

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10
I also wanted to include Steve's Monitor from that same campaign, as an example of a dedicated jump point control ship.  This particular example goes for extreme firepower and range in exchange for speed. Personally, I favor fast vessels for jump point control, to the extent that I still do that.  Your Broadsword is very similar to this design, though lower-technology.

[Person012345]

I tend to build my generic beam warships as primarily anti-missile. They have more high speed anti-missile lasers. But they also pack a secondary, heavier armament. This is because I can find that when assaulting a planet, I may not have enough missiles to defeat their planetary AMMs and destroy the defending PDCs, but that larger laser has enough range that my missiles can cause them to expend all their AMM and the laser can outrange their beam defence, thus making it easy to pick them off unmolested afterwards.

Although of course, every design is highly circumstantial, depending on your own particular game and your own particular enemies.

[Redshirt]

When I play beam ships, I'm also generally playing with nebulae. That, of course, is where beams excel. Jump point defense is the other area, as ships tend to have some blind time after making a jump, and will always be at a relatively close range.

[Nathan_]

Here's my ion engine era beam ship from my latest game:

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Scheer II class Destroyer    4,000 tons     477 Crew     678.8 BP      TCS 80  TH 264  EM 0
6600 km/s     Armour 2-22     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 18
Maint Life 9.27 Years     MSP 424    AFR 32%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 9    5YR 133    Max Repair 50 MSP

Ion Engine ME8.4 (8)    Power 66    Fuel Use 84%    Signature 33    Armour 0    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 190,000 Litres    Range 101.8 billion km   (178 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V1/C3 (6x4)    Range 10,000km     TS: 6600 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 1    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S1.5 12-9000 (1)    Max Range: 24,000 km   TS: 9000 km/s     58 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
GCFR S1 P4.5 (4)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This is just a final defensive fire early game ship.

Heres the replacement for the next tech level:

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Scheer III class Cruiser    8,000 tons     962 Crew     1927 BP      TCS 160  TH 736  EM 0
9200 km/s     Armour 3-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 16     PPV 30
Maint Life 18.09 Years     MSP 2409    AFR 32%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 14    5YR 209    Max Repair 86 MSP

Magneto-plasma Drive ME7.8 (16)    Power 92    Fuel Use 78%    Signature 46    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 390,000 Litres    Range 112.5 billion km   (141 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V4/C3 (10x4)    Range 40,000km     TS: 9200 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S4.5 48-12000 (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
SFR S1 P6 (5)     Total Power Output 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Search 335k - Missile (1)     GPS 28     Range 3.1m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
More range was put in so that they could actually shoot at other ships. The price shot way up for this one, size and tech are expensive. also fairly maintenence heavy, but I am parking these on jump points.

And finally a gunboat design to get the most out of my railguns tracking speed wise:

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Valkyrie class Gunboat    550 tons     70 Crew     140 BP      TCS 11  TH 92  EM 0
16727 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 4.78 Years     MSP 40    AFR 9%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 3    5YR 43    Max Repair 69 MSP

GB Magneto-plasma Drive FACE78 (1)    Power 184    Fuel Use 780%    Signature 92    Armour 0    Exp 36%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 4.2 billion km   (69 hours at full power)

10cm Railgun V4/C3 (1x4)    Range 16,000km     TS: 16727 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 4    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 8-16000 (1)    Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
SFR S0.5 P3.45 (1)     Total Power Output 3.45    Armour 0    Exp 12%

Search 3M - 5000 (1)     GPS 280     Range 3.1m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


I'm using the +pow techs because at around ion propulsion they start to get RP cost effective per point of engine power, also I could probably drop fuel and maint for more armor.