Change Log for 6.40 Discussion

[Mel Vixen]

That wouldnt make much sense. Those are 20K disgruntled slaves, they rather would take up arms most of the time.

Now lets get "Slavetrade" into the game with Civ. Ships doing the transportation. Not realy serious on that but transporting angry people from one Hellhole to anorther should make them magically happy or docile. Thus if i take people from a unhappy population that needs policing it should stay unhappy even if relocated.




Steve you mentioned that you, maybe, add looting Missiles from wrecks. Any plans or eta on that?

[Nathan_]

That wouldnt make much sense. Those are 20K disgruntled slaves, they rather would take up arms most of the time.

precisely, they should count against, and not for, police strength.

[MarcAFK]

I agree with this too.

[Prince of Space]

Well, is the unit intended to represent both the workers and a sufficient number of guards to keep them in line? If so, then the negative police value wouldn't make sense.

Also, as the base ground combat value is increased through research, the negative police value would remain the same, proportionally, which raises the question of why we're giving cutting edge arms to both our troops and our slaves.

Still, I agree that there should be some mechanical representation of how forced labor is counterproductive to quelling a restive populace. But isn't that covered by the unrest cost for creating them in the first place? Or is that insufficient?

[alex_brunius]

Well, is the unit intended to represent both the workers and a sufficient number of guards to keep them in line? If so, then the negative police value wouldn't make sense.

I think it still makes sense. While you can argue that the guards can keep the workers in line that is not what the unrest represent.

Unrest represents the rest of the "free" population that has to live nearby and watch their kin suffer from slavery as their anger grows about not being able to do anything about it...
It also represent the mind of the guards that has a very unpleasant work and likely are not so happy with what their masters have them do every day either.

Also, as the base ground combat value is increased through research, the negative police value would remain the same, proportionally, which raises the question of why we're giving cutting edge arms to both our troops and our slaves.

Unless the slaves have the same combat values they are not receiving cutting edge arms, they are receiving hand me downs that regular troops no longer needs

Still, I agree that there should be some mechanical representation of how forced labor is counterproductive to quelling a restive populace. But isn't that covered by the unrest cost for creating them in the first place? Or is that insufficient?

I think there should be some permanent extra negative cost in policing too. Otherwise a single regular garrison can handle billions of slave workers just given enough time to reduce unrest gradually if they are built slowly.

Of-course you can just make the forced labor unit more expensive in itself (to increase it's maintenance cost and represent the extra policing), but that kind of defeats the point of being able to raise them quickly....

[Narmio]

What if forced labour units lost morale over time as they are used to build stuff?  After all, you're working people to death, they're not all going to make it.  That would force players to build more over time -- say the lost morale resulted in replacements being needed every few years -- and thus re-incur the unrest penalties from recruiting them.

I'm not sure how feasible it is that their morale loss is dependent on whether they're working or not, it would suck if they kept dying on you even when you weren't forcing them to build stuff.

[Steve Walmsley]

I've added to the description for the FLU:

7) FLU do not count toward occupation strength and do not reduce unrest. Their defence strength (equal to 1/10th of a Garrison Unit) is used in ground combat defence only.

Also added the following to the change log:

As GFTF are military installations that do not require population to operate they will no longer be affected by the Population Status Production Modifier (based on political status) or the Manufacturing Efficiency Modifier (not enough workers). They will still be affected by radiation and by the Economic Production Modifier (negative wealth).

[Steve Walmsley]

What if forced labour units lost morale over time as they are used to build stuff?  After all, you're working people to death, they're not all going to make it.  That would force players to build more over time -- say the lost morale resulted in replacements being needed every few years -- and thus re-incur the unrest penalties from recruiting them.

I'm not sure how feasible it is that their morale loss is dependent on whether they're working or not, it would suck if they kept dying on you even when you weren't forcing them to build stuff.

I considered having them reduce readiness over time (and I still might) but it adds extra complexity and I am not sure there is any game play benefit. I would have to prevent them regaining readiness (or take it from the population), prevent Replacement Battalions from aiding them and also modify their construction output. Besides, they aren't being worked to death. They are forced labour, not expendable slaves. I guess I could have an additional unit type that produced higher output but lost strength over time but that might be going a little far

[viperfan7]

I noticed that missiles now will follow an intercept course, I
m thinking that to allow someone to say, manually try to out maneuver a missle (not sure when that would happen but maybe some people do) make it so that the targeting system controls how accurately the missile will intercept, maybe with a Missile Intercept Accuracy tech.

[Sematary]

I noticed that missiles now will follow an intercept course, I
m thinking that to allow someone to say, manually try to out maneuver a missle (not sure when that would happen but maybe some people do) make it so that the targeting system controls how accurately the missile will intercept, maybe with a Missile Intercept Accuracy tech.

That's what agility is for.

[dgibso29]

Fantastic changes thus far for 6.4- Keep it up, Steve!

Naturally I find myself yearning to open up Aurora while simultaneously wanting to wait for the next update.

[ardem]

6.4 is the AI upgrade patch, I am so happy we seeing some life put into the AI with new options.

[Texashawk]

Steve, you might as well go ahead and call this puppy 7.0. It certainly has enough content! 

[Panopticon]

I agree, these are pretty major at least from a user experience perspective.

[Starmantle]

I'm very excited about so many of these changes!

Thanks, Steve.