Author Topic: C# Aurora Changes Discussion  (Read 249702 times)

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Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2490 on: January 22, 2020, 07:54:29 PM »
I'm liking that diplomacy model - seems like a good simple starting point, but one that should have a lot of options to create good gameplay.

That said, I'm going to OCD about one thing. The formula:
> Diplomacy Points = ((Diplomacy Bonus * 4) + 1) * 100 * (1 – (Target Racial Xenophobia / 100))
should clearly read instead:
> Diplomacy Points = ((Diplomacy Bonus * 4) + 1) * (100 – Target Racial Xenophobia)

(Yes, I'm aware that this is totally irrelevant, and that I'm being obnoxiously anal-retentive)

No it matters. Given how little the diplomacy system will take up in processing time it probably won't matter, but less code to run and less actions to take is less time it takes to process.

You can have multiple qualifying ships with modules but only the commander with the highest rating will be used. I decided it wouldn't be realistic that (for example) you could sent three different delegations to an alien race to make relations improve three times faster. Stacking ships to generate more points would also unbalance all the others mechanics that increase or decrease point. Modules also don't stack on the same ship.

It would be realistic for it to stack in a limited manner though. It's not as if having dozens if not hundreds of diplomatic staff handling a large number of issues and treaty minutiae with another polity is unrealistic; it won't necessarily improve relations much faster, but it'd get things worked out and done quicker.
 

Offline AlStar

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2491 on: January 22, 2020, 11:21:33 PM »
It's an interesting question - on the one hand, it makes sense that a race would only nominate its most talented diplomat to represent them; so it would makes sense for only your best and brightest to make contact with the aliens....

On the other hand, it could also be hilarious if your Jean Luc Picard-like diplomat's positive influence was dueling with your Zapp Brannigan-like diplomat's negative influence...
 

Offline DIT_grue

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2492 on: January 23, 2020, 03:44:28 AM »
Quote
An example of a negative impact is combat. Negative diplomatic points are suffered due to damage inflicted by an alien race using the following rules:

Each point of damage from a hit that only damages shields: 0.1
Each point of damage from a hit that causes armour damage but not internal: 0.25
Each point of damage from a hit that causes internal damage: 1.0
Each point of space-based damage to populations, ground forces or shipyards: 1.0
Each ton of ground forces destroyed in ground-based combat: 0.01

Just trying to clarify a minor point: to have a specific example, if a hit does 25 damage that brings down the last six points of shields, mostly slags armour, but two points of damage penetrate and kill internal components (but don't cause explosions)... is that 25 * 1, or pro rata such that 6 * 0.1 + 17 * 0.25 + 2 * 1 = 6.85?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2493 on: January 23, 2020, 05:08:33 AM »
Quote
An example of a negative impact is combat. Negative diplomatic points are suffered due to damage inflicted by an alien race using the following rules:

Each point of damage from a hit that only damages shields: 0.1
Each point of damage from a hit that causes armour damage but not internal: 0.25
Each point of damage from a hit that causes internal damage: 1.0
Each point of space-based damage to populations, ground forces or shipyards: 1.0
Each ton of ground forces destroyed in ground-based combat: 0.01

Just trying to clarify a minor point: to have a specific example, if a hit does 25 damage that brings down the last six points of shields, mostly slags armour, but two points of damage penetrate and kill internal components (but don't cause explosions)... is that 25 * 1, or pro rata such that 6 * 0.1 + 17 * 0.25 + 2 * 1 = 6.85?

25 * 1
 
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Online db48x

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2494 on: January 23, 2020, 06:25:23 AM »
Steve, have you considered whether crew deaths are worth diplomatic points? What about rescuing crew and returning them later?
 

Offline sloanjh

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2495 on: January 23, 2020, 08:22:22 AM »
I'm liking that diplomacy model - seems like a good simple starting point, but one that should have a lot of options to create good gameplay.

That said, I'm going to OCD about one thing. The formula:
> Diplomacy Points = ((Diplomacy Bonus * 4) + 1) * 100 * (1 – (Target Racial Xenophobia / 100))
should clearly read instead:
> Diplomacy Points = ((Diplomacy Bonus * 4) + 1) * (100 – Target Racial Xenophobia)

(Yes, I'm aware that this is totally irrelevant, and that I'm being obnoxiously anal-retentive)

It actually does matter if you're using integer arithmetic :)

John
 

Offline Titanian

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2496 on: January 23, 2020, 09:03:17 AM »
While in general the new diplomacy rules sound good, what will happen in starts with multiple races on e.g. earth? Would everybody need to struggle to get a diplamacy ship (or base) running to make sure the whole planet does not erupt into war instantly? Is the diplomacy module even a starting tech? Sounds a bit strange that earth diplomats suddenly refuse to talk to each other without a fancy new space embassy ;). Another thing that might be a good idea is that races starting on the same planet and having the same species should be able to communicate from the start. While this is not that important for player starts actually (space master, set fixed diplomatic rating and so on), it might be important for the cases where NPRs are created in multiples on newly discovered planets (which is a really nice feature, by the way).
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2497 on: January 23, 2020, 09:17:17 AM »
I read it as "a population counts as a diplomacy module"
 

Offline Kristover

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2498 on: January 26, 2020, 11:40:43 AM »
I like the changes outlined in both Diplo 1&2 posts on the Change Lists.  It seems to me that the system outlined will lend itself to a slow build of tensions and hostilities - unless you meet a REALLY xenophobic race - rather than an all or nothing war.  It will be interesting to see how wars are handled in a diplomatic context if less xenophobic or ruthless races will confine themselves to just 'claims' so you can fight a limited border conflict for a system or if wars of extermination will occur.

One question right up front:  Will there be a some sort of graphical representation indicating alien claims?  Colored rings on the galactic map?  Something on the system map or in the race intelligence file?  Or a separate new diplomatic screen?
 

Offline the obelisk

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2499 on: January 26, 2020, 12:46:14 PM »
Quote
If you have forces or a population in a system that is claimed by an NPR and you are detected and you are currently viewed as neutral or friendly, the NPR will issue a warning which will appear as an event.
...
Allied Races do not receive warnings as they can freely enter the NPR territory.
So you can colonize an allied race's territory?
 

Offline froggiest1982

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2500 on: January 26, 2020, 02:45:38 PM »
While in general the new diplomacy rules sound good, what will happen in starts with multiple races on e.g. earth? Would everybody need to struggle to get a diplamacy ship (or base) running to make sure the whole planet does not erupt into war instantly? Is the diplomacy module even a starting tech? Sounds a bit strange that earth diplomats suddenly refuse to talk to each other without a fancy new space embassy ;). Another thing that might be a good idea is that races starting on the same planet and having the same species should be able to communicate from the start. While this is not that important for player starts actually (space master, set fixed diplomatic rating and so on), it might be important for the cases where NPRs are created in multiples on newly discovered planets (which is a really nice feature, by the way).

I believe for Multi-Racial start on the same planet (I don't think you can actually extend to the system, that would be nice) there's still the flag "Truce" which will allow you to set up a minimum period where it will be not possible to actually go to war. The rule applies to NPRs as well.
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2501 on: January 26, 2020, 02:57:01 PM »
So you can colonize an allied race's territory?

I sure hope so; otherwise all those nifty extras that come from having populations on the same bodies as foreign populations will be a whole lot less useful.
 

Offline Triato

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2502 on: January 26, 2020, 03:01:26 PM »
Would alien races accept a shared ownership of a system or planet? Would you be able to offer money, treaties, systems or planets in exchange for the same things with an NPR?

The diplomacy system sounds great!
 

Offline Rabid_Cog

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2503 on: January 27, 2020, 01:36:39 AM »
If an alien race suffers damage from one of your ships that it can't see (lasers/missiles from outside of detection range), do you still suffer the relationship hit?

I.e. is privateering a thing?  ;D
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Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2504 on: January 27, 2020, 01:59:58 AM »
If an alien race suffers damage from one of your ships that it can't see (lasers/missiles from outside of detection range), do you still suffer the relationship hit?

I.e. is privateering a thing?  ;D

Realistically I think you should suffer full relationship hit.

It would be fairly trivial for anyone smart enough for space travel to figure out who attacked you based on attack patterns, explosion signatures, analysis of wreck/ship damage, monitoring of jump point traffic and using logic/exclusion of who could have committed the attack. Even if they can't prove it being 95-99% sure you did it would be almost the same as having proof relationship wise.


There might be some edge cases like if you can emulate the attack originating from someone else or make it looked like a rogue vessel of the own forces did it, but these are one time and edge cases enough that just having SM options available to either disable relationship changes or resetting them back should be plenty enough.
 

 

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