Author Topic: Replacing Teams?  (Read 4001 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline the obelisk

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • t
  • Posts: 51
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2018, 05:55:20 PM »
Quote from: froggiest1982 link=topic=9830. msg106623#msg106623 date=1518658143
I disagree sorry.  I believe the concept of future tech will be misled this way.  It is already possible with our tech to identify minerals presence IF we know what and how to look.

Yeah, but that's normal minerals.   These are Trans-Newtonian minerals.
 

Offline Zincat

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • Z
  • Posts: 283
  • Thanked: 26 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2018, 09:42:01 AM »
Maybe using another tech line which increases sensor abilities. So you start with bodies <200km and get up to <2000km with proper research. Or whatever values Steve thinks would fit.

This would lead to a nightmarish micromanagement situation in which you have to re-survey systems once your technology goes up. I don't think that's advisable at all.

Frankly, I really think that further refinements in geosurvey sensor tech should only increase survey speed.
 

Offline serger

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • Posts: 157
  • Thanked: 11 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2018, 03:13:09 AM »
It could all be part of the Anomaly system

Second this!

It will be cool, by the way, if there will be obligate Anomaly at each home world, because it will explain why are those worlds so rich with TN minerals.
 

Offline firefly2442

  • Able Ordinary Rate
  • Posts: 4
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2018, 09:34:55 AM »
I feel the current survey teams are a little clunky.   They require a lot of manual effort and management.   It would be nice to either attach that ability to another entity in the game and/or to provide automation to the player in conducting surveys.   For example, you could add teams to survey ships and have them explore and survey automatically.
 

Offline TheBawkHawk

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • T
  • Posts: 30
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2018, 12:34:40 PM »
For example, you could add teams to survey ships and have them explore and survey automatically.

Agreed, if survey teams are going to be changed, I'd like them to be like this. An optional module that you can add to a survey ship, which carries a survey team that will automatically survey the body as it's scanned. It should be a fairly large module though, to balance out the options of either bringing a survey team on your ship but having it be a larger and more expensive ship, or the current system where its just the scanner, and you can bring around the survey team afterwards.
 

Offline Bremen

  • Commander
  • *********
  • B
  • Posts: 357
  • Thanked: 20 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2018, 12:48:43 PM »
I really don't see what the game gains by having multiple levels of survey. It isn't a fun or interesting mechanic, and it adds nothing except micromanagement.

So my suggestion remains to just have the one level of survey. If you want to have the equivalent of more in depth surveys on larger planets, just increase the survey point cost of large bodies and have it give accurate reports the first time - then you can model larger and more efficient geo scanners by just putting more scanners on the survey ship.
 
The following users thanked this post: Iranon, Barkhorn, Kytuzian

Offline prophetical

  • Able Ordinary Rate
  • p
  • Posts: 1
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2018, 03:05:12 PM »
Perhaps it would be reasonable to outsource surveying to civilian ships, much like creating contracts for ferrying items.
 

Offline Graham

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Thanked: 11 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2018, 11:55:43 PM »
I feel the current survey teams are a little clunky.   They require a lot of manual effort and management.   It would be nice to either attach that ability to another entity in the game and/or to provide automation to the player in conducting surveys.   For example, you could add teams to survey ships and have them explore and survey automatically.

If we are just having two levels of survey which both operate in the same way, we may as well just remove team surveys, since it would then be adding basically nothing.
I prefer the previous idea of using ground forces, but only only having a handful of bodies per system worth surveying, and maybe add some new events to survey to make it more interesting.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1236
  • Thanked: 50 times
  • Dance Commander
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2018, 01:06:35 AM »
I really don't see what the game gains by having multiple levels of survey. It isn't a fun or interesting mechanic, and it adds nothing except micromanagement.

So my suggestion remains to just have the one level of survey. If you want to have the equivalent of more in depth surveys on larger planets, just increase the survey point cost of large bodies and have it give accurate reports the first time - then you can model larger and more efficient geo scanners by just putting more scanners on the survey ship.

It lets you pick out potentially useful worlds for further investigation, and then further-investigate them.  It's a good RP endeavor with practical benefits.  I don't think it was ever really intended as something you should do for every dead rock.  In Aurora-VB, i only team survey potential colonies and bodies that already have notably good minerals.

In Aurora-C, it could also potentially have impact on ship design, and on player behavior. Right now, optimal play essentially involves throwing out lots of expendable survey ships because they really arn't worth the fuel or effort of naval squadrons to even pretend to protect them.  A large science vessel worth many BP and carry as much as 10 or more commanders would in comparison be an asset of considerable worth.  Or, difficulty of survey could be split up between 'asteroidal' - easy - and 'planetary' - much more difficult'.

Consider that surveying is somewhat degenerate right now in Aurora VB.  There's little consideration of systems too far to practically survey - little use of forward survey bases - no percentage in protecting your survey ships.  It's unappealing micro precisely because there's little reward or engagement in the mechanic right now.

 

Offline Bremen

  • Commander
  • *********
  • B
  • Posts: 357
  • Thanked: 20 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2018, 01:27:25 PM »
It lets you pick out potentially useful worlds for further investigation, and then further-investigate them.  It's a good RP endeavor with practical benefits.  I don't think it was ever really intended as something you should do for every dead rock.  In Aurora-VB, i only team survey potential colonies and bodies that already have notably good minerals.

In Aurora-C, it could also potentially have impact on ship design, and on player behavior. Right now, optimal play essentially involves throwing out lots of expendable survey ships because they really arn't worth the fuel or effort of naval squadrons to even pretend to protect them.  A large science vessel worth many BP and carry as much as 10 or more commanders would in comparison be an asset of considerable worth.  Or, difficulty of survey could be split up between 'asteroidal' - easy - and 'planetary' - much more difficult'.

Consider that surveying is somewhat degenerate right now in Aurora VB.  There's little consideration of systems too far to practically survey - little use of forward survey bases - no percentage in protecting your survey ships.  It's unappealing micro precisely because there's little reward or engagement in the mechanic right now.

Except as you point out, there's no reason not to fully survey every rock, because distance is otherwise a large obstacle. Better to have 100 minerals in a colonized system system than 1000 ten jumps away. So in practice geosurvey teams/ground units always boil down to "the optimum path is lots of unnecessary micromanagement".

As for the rest, I'm not opposed to survey ships being more expensive, I'm opposed to having to survey things twice to get the full results. Not to mention two levels of survey wouldn't change what you're saying; if there were cheap initial survey ships and expensive secondary survey ships, people would just explore systems with the cheap ones and only send in an expensive one once the system was checked out (and thus wouldn't need an escort).

If you want actual reasons to escort them, or establish frontier bases, you'd want expensive survey ships but only one survey level.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 12:11:37 AM by Bremen »
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Moderator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 6869
  • Thanked: 1501 times
    • http://www.starfireassistant.com
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2018, 04:16:06 AM »
The original geology team mechanic was intended for use on a few key worlds (which is how I tend to play it). However, I didn't think it through that well :)

The ground-unit solution for a few worlds only would match my original intention.
 

Offline Bremen

  • Commander
  • *********
  • B
  • Posts: 357
  • Thanked: 20 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2018, 02:17:43 PM »
The original geology team mechanic was intended for use on a few key worlds (which is how I tend to play it). However, I didn't think it through that well :)

The ground-unit solution for a few worlds only would match my original intention.

To clarify, my opinion is that even when confined to a few worlds, it doesn't really add anything (except maybe roleplay opportunities I guess) that having the minerals surveyed from the start doesn't. Though in that regard I do at least favor the ground based teams over a second type of survey ship I suppose, since it's not doing the same thing twice.
 

Offline the obelisk

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • t
  • Posts: 51
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2018, 02:35:17 PM »
Geological teams (or the unit that resonances them) should do more than just have a chance if fusing nite minerals or increasing accessibility.   Maybe they could give you an idea of the what the planet's trade goods situation will be if you decide to set up a colony.
 

Offline Dr. Toboggan

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • D
  • Posts: 29
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2018, 02:54:17 PM »
Maybe the alien ruins could be expanded? There would be a higher chance of finding them, but the rewards would be reduced.  When your xenologist unit (or whatever form they will eventually take) finds the ruins and excavates them, they could discover something like an ancient defense network/fortifications, giving a small defense bonus to ground forces.  Or perhaps the team gets attacked by local fauna, which would require them to be somewhat defended.

For geological surveys though, I think that the possibility of more minerals should be detected during the initial scan, and then require a dedicated team, with the extra cost of transporting the team there being a big pay off in terms of minerals.  This could give it much more of an expeditionary feel to the mechanic, since instead of just sending teams to Mars, Venus, Europa, etc., your long range survey ships have found something far from your borders that is well worth the expense of exploring further. 

However, both of these should probably be limited to large planetary bodies.  Maybe instead for asteroids, there could be a chance where once the sensors finish the scan, the ship would scan the body again, with a chance to find extra minerals.  Rather than sending an entirely separate expedition, the ship just does a double check and might find something it did not see on its first pass.
 

Offline Garfunkel

  • Rear Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 839
  • Thanked: 46 times
Re: Replacing Teams?
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2018, 09:44:10 AM »
there's no reason not to fully survey every rock
If you are so obsessive that you HAVE TO use geo teams to survey every system completely, down to the last asteroid, then you are obsessive enough to go nuts with something else. I only use teams on bodies that I'm already colonizing or mining or using otherwise. I can't even imagine the OCD required to survey 200+ bodies in the hope of getting more minerals. Why not just use SM to put few million of each TN mineral somewhere and call it a day?
 

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52