Author Topic: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions  (Read 142998 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Hazard

  • Captain
  • **********
  • H
  • Posts: 541
  • Thanked: 49 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1500 on: November 07, 2019, 07:05:45 AM »
Given that the 3 tons requirement for Light Personal Weapons also includes things like all the equipment necessary to not die instantly in vacuum, a high pressure environment, freeze to death in a pool of liquid nitrogen or burn the instant you get close to a lava planet all at the same time, I would be okay with the concept of a unit/component type/modifier that's exclusive to infantry that literally can't fight in environments that aren't in the species' 0 colonization cost tolerance for a lower cost.

That'd basically be your boarding defense parties. Don't try to send them into enemy ships and expect to get a happy ending, especially if their species has very different tolerances.
 

Offline Father Tim

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1263
  • Thanked: 159 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1501 on: November 07, 2019, 12:43:47 PM »
I wouldn't, because my 'given' is that those 3 tons also include food & water for several combat cycles, cleaning & maintenance kits for weapons, spare batteries for all their equipment, footlockers, duffel bags, extra clothes, and eveything else a soldier needs to be effective.

In short, the "infantry that literally can't fight in environments that aren't in the species' 0 colonization cost tolerance" should die instantly in boarding combat, because the darkness, explosive decompression, hard vacuum, and other aspects of the "boarding combat environment" make it decidely not a zero colony cost situation.
 
The following users thanked this post: DIT_grue

Offline QuakeIV

  • Registered
  • Commander
  • *********
  • Posts: 355
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1502 on: November 07, 2019, 03:08:20 PM »
It would certainly make sense for planetary garrisons though.
 

Offline Father Tim

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1263
  • Thanked: 159 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1503 on: November 07, 2019, 04:08:37 PM »
I don't think it would.  I think the rule is 3 tons for Personal Weapon (Light) Infantry, and 5 tons for Personal Weapon Infantry.  PW INF is already the baseline from which all other ground forces were developed.  They have no special training, no special defenses, and -- until we added Personal Weapon (Light) Infantry -- no 'lesser version'.

Now you want another lesser version of the lesser version of combatant we already have.  You think Military Police are too powerful because they might -- might -- have a submachinegun?

Or are you hung up on the idea that it takes 3 tons' displacement to feed, care for, and maintain one of them?  That each troop's share of the group showers, mess facilities, machine shops, training rooms, armoury, etc., should be less than that, or should be counted in the 'headquarters' or 'supply' unit type?

- - - -

Right now, the combat difference between one PWL INF and one Crewmember is a 50% penalty to the armour of the crewmember.  I tried to look up the size of a 100-ton cap troop transport bay and a Crew Quarters in C# Aurora to compare how many of each you could get per hull space, but I couldn't find the mechanics.  I still think that what you're asking for is wildly out of line with the established C# mechanics.
 

Offline Bremen

  • Captain
  • **********
  • B
  • Posts: 524
  • Thanked: 58 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1504 on: November 07, 2019, 04:29:23 PM »
I imagine that security troops on a ship carry kit like emergency air supplies as a replacement for how troops on a frontier world probably carrying things like wilderness survival gear. And it's probably fairly easy to swap those out if a unit is moved from one to another. There's such a thing as making things too granular, especially for a high level strategy game.

For specialized units we already have the special training options.
 

Offline Bughunter

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 648
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1505 on: November 08, 2019, 02:38:32 AM »
Regarding Steves latest AAR update I had a thought about the spoilers.

I was surprised the swarm/tyranids didn't eat the defenseless colonists, I think any self-respecting breed of horrible space monster should have that in their work description.

Also if they took some time going about it that might provide opportunity for rescue missions including a ground assault, stuff that makes great AAR material.
 

Offline MultiVitamin

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • M
  • Posts: 49
  • Thanked: 5 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1506 on: November 08, 2019, 03:43:42 AM »
Regarding Steves latest AAR update I had a thought about the spoilers.

I was surprised the swarm/tyranids didn't eat the defenseless colonists, I think any self-respecting breed of horrible space monster should have that in their work description.

Also if they took some time going about it that might provide opportunity for rescue missions including a ground assault, stuff that makes great AAR material.


Given that this campaign is to mostly test Ground Combat, and that Steve did allude to spoilers having their own Ground units, I think something is in the works for that already.
 

Offline Bremen

  • Captain
  • **********
  • B
  • Posts: 524
  • Thanked: 58 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1507 on: November 08, 2019, 12:22:18 PM »
Regarding Steves latest AAR update I had a thought about the spoilers.

I was surprised the swarm/tyranids didn't eat the defenseless colonists, I think any self-respecting breed of horrible space monster should have that in their work description.

Also if they took some time going about it that might provide opportunity for rescue missions including a ground assault, stuff that makes great AAR material.


Well, remember, in the AAR they're the Tyranids, who would definitely eat all the colonests, but in game they're the Star Swarm. They probably only care about TNEs. Also the colonists slowly dying without infrastructure does provide a need to launch a rescue mission.
 

Offline Stryker

  • Leading Rate
  • *
  • S
  • Posts: 7
  • Thanked: 3 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1508 on: November 08, 2019, 02:10:38 PM »
Would it be possible on the assign systems to sector screen to include the total population for the selected sector?  Additionally, a total empire population entry would be nice.

Alternatively, or in addition to, the option to sort by sector on the population and production screen with this information would also be useful.
 
The following users thanked this post: Cinnius

Offline MultiVitamin

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • M
  • Posts: 49
  • Thanked: 5 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1509 on: November 08, 2019, 08:48:32 PM »
Actually, would it be possible to make research trees for the Ground Force components? Just generic ones to increase their effectiveness, number of shots, etc? Or maybe make it so that we can design them?

So for example there'd be a few fields

Type - Anti-Personnel, Anti-Vehicle, Bombardment, Anti-Aircraft, Autocannon, or HQ (CE would stay the same)

Size - (Light, Medium, Heavy, Super-Heavy, Ultra-Heavy)

AP - (Dropdown menu from 1 to 50)

Damage - (Dropdown menu from 1 to 60)

Shots - (Dropdown menu from 1 to 6)

CIWS - (Can be blank, choose from pre-made CIWS made for ships, just resized maybe?)

FFD - (Dropdown menu from 1 to 3)


And various research could upgrade the ranges of these higher and higher. Just a suggestion I thought of while anticipating the renaming of components when a unit is designed, thought of "why not just build the components with research to make them better, and have that be designable?". It adds a lot more variety and player decision making for Ground Forces, like when you design the weapons, powerplants, defense, engines, etc for ships, just not as intense. Also helps solve the "Can't think of anything for Ultra-Heavy" problem you mention about having a while ago in (I think) a different thread.

If no on the designing the components themselves, what about just research to improve components?
 

Offline xenoscepter

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • x
  • Posts: 252
  • Thanked: 12 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1510 on: November 09, 2019, 02:57:35 AM »
Quote
Given that the 3 tons requirement for Light Personal Weapons also includes things like all the equipment necessary to not die instantly in vacuum, a high pressure environment, freeze to death in a pool of liquid nitrogen or burn the instant you get close to a lava planet all at the same time, I would be okay with the concept of a unit/component type/modifier that's exclusive to infantry that literally can't fight in environments that aren't in the species' 0 colonization cost tolerance for a lower cost.

That'd basically be your boarding defense parties. Don't try to send them into enemy ships and expect to get a happy ending, especially if their species has very different tolerances

~Hazard

Quote
I don't think it would.  I think the rule is 3 tons for Personal Weapon (Light) Infantry, and 5 tons for Personal Weapon Infantry.  PW INF is already the baseline from which all other ground forces were developed.  They have no special training, no special defenses, and -- until we added Personal Weapon (Light) Infantry -- no 'lesser version'.

Now you want another lesser version of the lesser version of combatant we already have.  You think Military Police are too powerful because they might -- might -- have a submachinegun?

Or are you hung up on the idea that it takes 3 tons' displacement to feed, care for, and maintain one of them?  That each troop's share of the group showers, mess facilities, machine shops, training rooms, armoury, etc., should be less than that, or should be counted in the 'headquarters' or 'supply' unit type?

~Father Tim

 --- What about a 1 Ton kit for Garrison / Security Forces? With the caveat that they require external support or else suffer damage? That support could be in the form of Logistics Units, Colonies with a great than 'X' population, Colonies with a equal to or greater than  'X' population but only if the planet has a greater than 'X' Colony Suitability Cost, and being on board a ship with Troop Transport capabilities? A 1.5 Ton kit would be also be nice as a 'heavy' option, for those empires that would splurge on 'Elite' bodyguards or for officers or something like that.

 --- I rather like the idea of 'cheap' defense units; that are dedicated to defense, mind you. Such units wouldn't NEED the overhead of attacking forces because they could have everything "right at home" so to speak. Likewise, security forces for Logistics Bases, Forward HQs, or Artillery Detachments (an admittedly weird proposition, but IRL countries make weird choices all the time so... yeah). These forces would be cheap for the sake of peacetime or cheap for the sake of their rear guard status. They really should have low stats, though.

 --- Garrisons could have defense equal to light infantry, but have attack that was only half of it. Security units could have defenses equal to half of light infantry, with a quarter of that attack, but be even cheaper to produce than a garrison. Security and Garrison should just be 1 Ton however, to represent the absolute bare minimum, but Security would just have cheaper stuff to reflect their more 'Specialized' role. The 1.5 ton 'heavy' versions would be better and more expensive of course.

 --- Another interesting idea would be dedicated Marine Garrisons for space stations, ships w/ Troop Transport abilities and such. Same idea, with the 1 Ton kit and maybe the 1.5 ton 'heavy' kit, and the same with the caveat that they require dedicated logistics support from their ships, space stations, colonies or whatever. Not sure WHY you would put Marines on a colony, but then again I do like building colonies on airless hell holes... so yeah, there's that. (sooper sekrit soviet spess koloni for built stronk tenk) Still, while Marines would mostly be a bad choice to defend a colony, they could still be support just like any troops.

Just some thoughts, cheers! ;D
 

Offline xenoscepter

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • x
  • Posts: 252
  • Thanked: 12 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1511 on: November 09, 2019, 03:06:56 AM »
I protest the lack of civillian shipping subsidies! I wanna be a space commie dammit all! Subsidize EVERYTHING!

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I had some thoughts on what could be done moving forward. And thought I might share them here.

 --- It's been mentioned about piracy and such before, but I did think of something I'd like along the lines of that. Militia forces. Militia ships, Militia navy, militia ground troops. ALL THE MILITIAS!

 --- I think privateering is a cool avenue to explore as well, alongside private security firms, and mercenary units / bounty hunter groups. These could be like Commercial Mining Colonies in that you need a certain amount of "growth" before they can exist. Not just wealth, but also weapons and ships, to represent not just the economic growth to sustain it but also the technological growth as well. Military units typically have the top shelf guns, while civilians would have (if any... I'm American so this is far more normal to me.) the 'civilian version' or the military's old surplus sold to them. Would be a nice organic thing to add some depth to the game, but I'm very much for it being a check box option to toggle on and off. Same with Militias, doing something akin to The Expanse would be better served by disabling the functionality so NPRs don't have it... or do. Maybe separate parameters and a random gen option? Meh, I don't jack about programming, but that sounds like a lot of work.

 --- Still, tanks for all the great work Steve, hope these ideas can be of some use.

Cheers!  ;D
 

Offline arty

  • Leading Rate
  • *
  • a
  • Posts: 5
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1512 on: November 09, 2019, 04:29:45 AM »
If possible a Ship Mass driver Module would be grat :) make mining ships so much easyer to handle  ;D

and if the industrie build space stations could get civilian engines than you dont have to refit them ?!
 

Offline Hazard

  • Captain
  • **********
  • H
  • Posts: 541
  • Thanked: 49 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1513 on: November 09, 2019, 11:29:56 AM »
Arty, it's a good thing that industry build space stations can't get engines. It'd break the game because now shipyards no longer matter except possibly for repairs and refits of ships.
 

Offline Father Tim

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1263
  • Thanked: 159 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1514 on: November 09, 2019, 01:11:14 PM »
--- What about a 1 Ton kit for Garrison / Security Forces? With the caveat that they require external support or else suffer damage? That support could be in the form of Logistics Units, Colonies with a great than 'X' population, Colonies with a equal to or greater than  'X' population but only if the planet has a greater than 'X' Colony Suitability Cost, and being on board a ship with Troop Transport capabilities? A 1.5 Ton kit would be also be nice as a 'heavy' option, for those empires that would splurge on 'Elite' bodyguards or for officers or something like that.

 --- I rather like the idea of 'cheap' defense units; that are dedicated to defense, mind you. Such units wouldn't NEED the overhead of attacking forces because they could have everything "right at home" so to speak. Likewise, security forces for Logistics Bases, Forward HQs, or Artillery Detachments (an admittedly weird proposition, but IRL countries make weird choices all the time so... yeah). These forces would be cheap for the sake of peacetime or cheap for the sake of their rear guard status. They really should have low stats, though.

 --- Garrisons could have defense equal to light infantry, but have attack that was only half of it. Security units could have defenses equal to half of light infantry, with a quarter of that attack, but be even cheaper to produce than a garrison. Security and Garrison should just be 1 Ton however, to represent the absolute bare minimum, but Security would just have cheaper stuff to reflect their more 'Specialized' role. The 1.5 ton 'heavy' versions would be better and more expensive of course.

 --- Another interesting idea would be dedicated Marine Garrisons for space stations, ships w/ Troop Transport abilities and such. Same idea, with the 1 Ton kit and maybe the 1.5 ton 'heavy' kit, and the same with the caveat that they require dedicated logistics support from their ships, space stations, colonies or whatever. Not sure WHY you would put Marines on a colony, but then again I do like building colonies on airless hell holes... so yeah, there's that. (sooper sekrit soviet spess koloni for built stronk tenk) Still, while Marines would mostly be a bad choice to defend a colony, they could still be support just like any troops.

Just some thoughts, cheers! ;D

Okay, but now you have the situation where a guy whose job is supposed to be fighting is worse at it than a guy whose job is cleaning the gunk out of the soup nozzles.

What we've seen so far from Steve's AARs (admittedly quite a small sample size) is that dedicated boarding troops tear through defending crew at a ratio of 80 or 100 to 1.  If we make defenders any weaker, they are going to inflict zero casualties.  We're already at the point where 90% of attacker's casualties are from the drop attempt rather than fighting on board.
 

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55