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Posted by: consiefe
« on: May 11, 2020, 01:04:40 AM »

Quote from: Exultant on May 10, 2020, 09:20:13 PM
The short answer to the AMM barrage is "More PD Ships"

in Aurora, Missiles barrages tend to be either overwhelming or completely ineffectual. Since they run out, and can be completely neutralized, always bring enough PD to neutralize them.

My strategy in my no-missile games is 50% by tonnage dedicated PD ships in my fleet. If the enemy is bringing missiles to the fight, I'm happy. It means that I only need a few beam ships to mop up after they waste their barrages. With the change to still be able to shoot down missiles which can cross the distance in less than 5s, and the change to fix missile tracking bonuses I can choose to either wait at max range to give my PD the best chance to hit (if they're using more than I think I can handle) or close in and kill them before they use them all (if I know I can take the salvos).

If they are beam heavy and I didn't tailor my fleet due to proper scouting (like a first encounter with an NPR) then I will either need to retreat, or take advantage of point blank gauss spam, which is highly effective, so long as my ships are faster than theirs.

Wow, this is exactly my take on the subject after these recent experiences. Missiles can be completely trivialized by enough PD ships eventhough they seem impossible to overcome at first. So as you mentioned no missile game, I was also thinking missiles aren't necessary after all. The bit of information I need on the matter is, how much saturation we need to make AI hit by missiles. If AI brings as many PDs as player than there is no point bothering with missiles.

For gauss turrets, I was literally thinking about the damage before I read your post. How devastating especially in numbers, RoF 5 Gauss Quad turret can be. 20 damage per turret and if you stack low accuracy light turrets potential damage is overwhelming. You need durable ships though since you really need to get close.
Posted by: Exultant
« on: May 10, 2020, 09:20:13 PM »

The short answer to the AMM barrage is "More PD Ships"

in Aurora, Missiles barrages tend to be either overwhelming or completely ineffectual. Since they run out, and can be completely neutralized, always bring enough PD to neutralize them.

My strategy in my no-missile games is 50% by tonnage dedicated PD ships in my fleet. If the enemy is bringing missiles to the fight, I'm happy. It means that I only need a few beam ships to mop up after they waste their barrages. With the change to still be able to shoot down missiles which can cross the distance in less than 5s, and the change to fix missile tracking bonuses I can choose to either wait at max range to give my PD the best chance to hit (if they're using more than I think I can handle) or close in and kill them before they use them all (if I know I can take the salvos).

If they are beam heavy and I didn't tailor my fleet due to proper scouting (like a first encounter with an NPR) then I will either need to retreat, or take advantage of point blank gauss spam, which is highly effective, so long as my ships are faster than theirs.
Posted by: Gabethebaldandbold
« on: May 10, 2020, 05:26:39 PM »

Quote

Now Xeno and Cons teams recovering ruins. 1/10 of them recovered to present day and it was 20m fuel, 100 Inf, 1 FC, 1 CF. Still 66 Alien Inst. are waiting to be recovered. Xeno teams found that they have a name which now can't remember but still not their race. Since they had no lifepods I assume they were not proper NPRs though.
one way to distinguish between spoilers and NPRs is that. also, on VB6 it was also possible to distinguish them during battle, Precursors never streamed anything, Swarm stream fluid (and that is awesome), and invaders stream atmosphere when you breach the hull, like the rest of us.
Posted by: consiefe
« on: May 10, 2020, 11:43:18 AM »

Quote from: Black on May 10, 2020, 11:40:50 AM
If you still see short increments after battle check your fire controls, maybe you forgot to turn them off.

No, no they are proper adjusments becuse I turned all my FCs off and lots of time passed. I get many normal increments but now and then they start and take 5-10 times to go away.

But thanks for the heads up.
Posted by: Black
« on: May 10, 2020, 11:40:50 AM »

If you still see short increments after battle check your fire controls, maybe you forgot to turn them off.
Posted by: consiefe
« on: May 10, 2020, 11:31:15 AM »

Quote from: sneer on May 10, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
in old vb6  aurora I had difficult fights with invaders in sol system
their missile tech was beyond my capabilities
I used commercials full of armor and ciws to soak damage as an opening in many won battles
 

Wow, that's a good strategy.

Quote from: Father Tim on May 10, 2020, 10:01:01 AM
Armoured missiles were pretty goood for this; too bad they were wildly overpowered in most other uses.

I think we don't (and I think we shouldn't) have armored missiles in C#, right?

Here is the story. We beat them since they had too few ships and I read GC and set up an army as good as I can. 150k 3divisions lost to their 16k, I think becuse of their OP mechs. They decreased to 7.5k. A second geneticly modified army did the trick, I lost 30k but beat them.

Now Xeno and Cons teams recovering ruins. 1/10 of them recovered to present day and it was 20m fuel, 100 Inf, 1 FC, 1 CF. Still 66 Alien Inst. are waiting to be recovered. Xeno teams found that they have a name which now can't remember but still not their race. Since they had no lifepods I assume they were not proper NPRs though.

I still get lots of increment adjusments but no contacts anywhere even though I searched a little. Maybe some commercial leftovers but they seem to trying to fire at something. It could also be two AIs fighting, it remains to be seen.
Posted by: sneer
« on: May 10, 2020, 10:50:44 AM »

in old vb6  aurora I had difficult fights with invaders in sol system
their missile tech was beyond my capabilities
I used commercials full of armor and ciws to soak damage as an opening in many won battles
 
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 10, 2020, 10:01:01 AM »

Armoured missiles were pretty good for this; too bad they were wildly overpowered in most other uses.
Posted by: Gabethebaldandbold
« on: May 09, 2020, 04:12:09 PM »

you need to make sure your ships aren't doing point defense when trying to counter AMM with AMM though, you might send AMM at theirs, defeating the whole purpose
Posted by: consiefe
« on: May 08, 2020, 09:44:28 PM »

Quote from: Gabethebaldandbold on May 08, 2020, 09:30:20 PM
one thing you can also do is get AMM that outranges them, or a slightly bigger, cheap Anti-Ship Missile, and throw a couple of thousands of them at the enemy. big ball of size1/size 2 box launchers, some 5 million km range, and some hard to hit missiles should do the trick. if everything goes right, they either waste 3 times as many missiles as you do, or eventually get their PD overwhelmed, and start losing ships. never quite faced a AMM storm quite that violent though, not on C#.

You all should have seen the amount of AMMs I faced in previous game, v1.80. That was gigantic. I tried outranging AMMs with 84k but I suppose I couldn't saturate enough. There was lots of ships though, 30+. So I think either I should have been much more advanced or wealthy.

This time to my surprise things were really calm but I feel I've lost too many ships. I don't know what systems were on those ships or how powerful that STO was. But in ground combat, once more we got the bitter treatment. I have to conquer this spoilers, it's vengance now! :) What should I expect to find on that planet and does this particular race ever venture out from their system?
Posted by: Gabethebaldandbold
« on: May 08, 2020, 09:30:20 PM »

one thing you can also do is get AMM that outranges them, or a slightly bigger, cheap Anti-Ship Missile, and throw a couple of thousands of them at the enemy. big ball of size1/size 2 box launchers, some 5 million km range, and some hard to hit missiles should do the trick. if everything goes right, they either waste 3 times as many missiles as you do, or eventually get their PD overwhelmed, and start losing ships. never quite faced a AMM storm quite that violent though, not on C#.
Posted by: consiefe
« on: May 08, 2020, 08:00:57 PM »

Wow, thank you all. This time they had only 3 ships and a STO. I went with 1x CC with 10 fighters, 2x 24k DDs, 4x 15k FFs, 10x PD 6k CTs with mini gauss turrets mostly. Perfected the missile phase. STO fire took out one of my DDs with an unfortunate shot. Lost all my fighters. 4 CTs out by engine shots.

In the end only ground forces remained. I never researched it and truly have no experience or knowledge. I designed some mixed divisions and attacked them. They steamrolled us as expected and all my ships in orbit surrendered! I was shocked. Thankfully I saved the game before the experience. :)) Eh, can you give some advice on proper invading forces?  ;D
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: May 08, 2020, 07:20:41 PM »

Quote from: consiefe on May 08, 2020, 09:16:18 AM
Quote from: Jorgen_CAB on May 08, 2020, 08:49:16 AM
It is just weight of volume... you simply have to bring a larger fleet to do the job.

Never ever use AMM to intercept enemy AMM unless you are seriously out teching them, but then your PD should be even more powerful.

A combination of PD, shields and armour should be sufficient to weather the AMM spam until you get really close. Once you are close you fire all your close range torpeoes and engage in beam combat and obliterate them.

Of they have 200.000 tons of shipping you bring 400.00 ton... it is that simple really.

Is it bigger tonnage as total? I mean lots of smalls or a few giants? And close range torpedos are interesting? How does it effect though? Is it for keeping busy of their beams preventing them return fire or at close range can even they get through the PD defence? I am trying to utilize beam tracking vs missile but I don't know how much tracking speed do I need to shoot down a big chunk of their AMMs.

And lastly does my above plan have any chance to do the job?

Regarding ship size there are no boundaries... the larger the design the more defenses you can concentrate in one package. They are very research intensive and you can only afford that if you have a good industry to support it. But it will save resource in the end when you go on the offensive.
Posted by: kks
« on: May 08, 2020, 06:28:24 PM »

If you yourself have AMMs it could also be worthwhile to shoot them against the enemy ships to have them expend their AMMs on yours.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: May 08, 2020, 10:36:55 AM »

Shield regeneration is a thing too - if that is high enough and there aren't too many missiles hitting you each 5 seconds, it's feasible to just push through the barrage that way.