How a newbie is losing the war with NPR ... :)

[nuclearslurpee]

much words

It is worth noting that at least a partial fix may come in v2.0, as per Steve post here the AI will try to combine its fleets in a system instead of sending piecemeal forces, so offensive ships should be accompanied by anti-missile escorts assuming these are present in the system. Frankly if this change works its impact in making NPRs reasonable opponents cannot be overstated I think although how well it works will remain to be seen.

[Droll]

much words

It is worth noting that at least a partial fix may come in v2.0, as per Steve post here the AI will try to combine its fleets in a system instead of sending piecemeal forces, so offensive ships should be accompanied by anti-missile escorts assuming these are present in the system. Frankly if this change works its impact in making NPRs reasonable opponents cannot be overstated I think although how well it works will remain to be seen.

I know it's been discussed before but for me where the NPRs really falloff is in the empire building aspect and not the tactical side, I think the ECCM bug is major but that's the only massive thing that I've noticed tactically.

I don't ever expect them to match my meager tactical genius but if the AI, esp. the generated NPRs get a bit better at building empires then I am gucci.

[Kristover]

much words

It is worth noting that at least a partial fix may come in v2.0, as per Steve post here the AI will try to combine its fleets in a system instead of sending piecemeal forces, so offensive ships should be accompanied by anti-missile escorts assuming these are present in the system. Frankly if this change works its impact in making NPRs reasonable opponents cannot be overstated I think although how well it works will remain to be seen.

I can think of at least two of my games that would have ended early if the AI had combined their fleet before coming at me.

[Jorgen_CAB]

As for ECCM I also hope NPR AMMs also start using ECCM as well. Missiles with decent ECM are more or less impossible by the NPRs to intercept with their AMM. Even at around ECM 3 the AI AMM become almost useless.

[Entaro (OP)]

HM..
Do I understand correctly that in order to play honestly against AI, you must either not use ECM yourself, or write the above line in certain files?

[Jorgen_CAB]

Aurora is an extremely complex game and the AI actually are pretty decent if you use a few constriction in your games. But there are a few flaws especially with their design templates. Outside of the ECCM bug the NPR never deploy carriers and it is not that good at scouting or defend against human scouting. The AI also always deploy full size missile launchers which is rather inefficient and relatively easy to defend against with regular beam PD and a small number of AMM. The NPR practically is not able to defend against fighter strikes very well either due to lack of scouting and weapons to defend against them.

As long as you play into the NPR strategies the NPR are decent obstacles, especially if you start at pre-TN and use slow tech progression.

[nuclearslurpee]

The AI also always deploy full size missile launchers which is rather inefficient and relatively easy to defend against with regular beam PD and a small number of AMM.

This is to me honestly one of the biggest tactical flaws of the NPRs, along with inability to handle basically any missile attack that isn't also from full-size launchers (box launchers are the worst, but even something like 33% size launchers will run over the NPR fleets). Given what a core part of gameplay missiles are, and how extensive and flexible the missile-related mechanics and systems are, it is a big shame IMO that only the most basic missile tactics are "fair" against the NPRs because of poorly they use and defend against missiles. If you play primarily with beam-armed ships then things are generally more fair, but most of the fun missile tactics have to be reserved for use against other player races.

[Entaro (OP)]

Aurora is an extremely complex game and the AI actually are pretty decent if you use a few constriction in your games. But there are a few flaws especially with their design templates. Outside of the ECCM bug the NPR never deploy carriers and it is not that good at scouting or defend against human scouting. The AI also always deploy full size missile launchers which is rather inefficient and relatively easy to defend against with regular beam PD and a small number of AMM. The NPR practically is not able to defend against fighter strikes very well either due to lack of scouting and weapons to defend against them.

As long as you play into the NPR strategies the NPR are decent obstacles, especially if you start at pre-TN and use slow tech progression.

HM. I also don’t use aircraft carriers, I don’t practically use fighters, I deploy full-fledged rocket launchers I guess this is fair to AI. To be on the safe side, I increased the difficulty of the game to 120%. Suddenly it will help.

For the first time, by the way, I was faced with a situation that my missiles cannot solve.
Enemy mother planet with 4 missile defense destroyers in orbit. In fact, they were able to easily shoot down all of my 200 missiles with their beam weapons. Marvelous.
I'll try to bring the other half of the rocket fleet and fire a salvo of 400 missiles, but I'm not sure what will help If it doesn't help, I'll have to use raiders with plasma carronades, but the last time I flew them to this planet, they fired at me quite powerfully.

[Steve Walmsley]

Aurora is an extremely complex game and the AI actually are pretty decent if you use a few constriction in your games. But there are a few flaws especially with their design templates. Outside of the ECCM bug the NPR never deploy carriers and it is not that good at scouting or defend against human scouting. The AI also always deploy full size missile launchers which is rather inefficient and relatively easy to defend against with regular beam PD and a small number of AMM. The NPR practically is not able to defend against fighter strikes very well either due to lack of scouting and weapons to defend against them.

As long as you play into the NPR strategies the NPR are decent obstacles, especially if you start at pre-TN and use slow tech progression.

I think this is a fair summary. I am currently coding box-launcher FAC flotillas for NPRs, so it won't be a major step from there to carriers when I get around to it. I might also look at reduced-size launchers for major warships. The scouting and anti-scouting role is trickier, although some form of random patrolling or buoy deployment might work.

[Steve Walmsley]

I've just updated NPR design philosophy to include the option of reduced-size launchers.

[nuclearslurpee]

I think this is a fair summary. I am currently coding box-launcher FAC flotillas for NPRs, so it won't be a major step from there to carriers when I get around to it. I might also look at reduced-size launchers for major warships. The scouting and anti-scouting role is trickier, although some form of random patrolling or buoy deployment might work.

I would love to see NPRs use missile sensor buoys at jump points to monitor traffic and track enemy fleet movements toward core systems. This would hopefully help them a lot with concentrating a fleet to deliver battle to an invader.

I've just updated NPR design philosophy to include the option of reduced-size launchers.

This and the preceding are very welcome changes! 

[Entaro (OP)]

I think this is a fair summary. I am currently coding box-launcher FAC flotillas for NPRs, so it won't be a major step from there to carriers when I get around to it. I might also look at reduced-size launchers for major warships. The scouting and anti-scouting role is trickier, although some form of random patrolling or buoy deployment might work.

Thank you for your work!

I can add information from my observations:
1. The most long-term is nevertheless for the AI ​​to unite its fleet before the main battle.
2. I noticed one more drawback:
Above the enemy planet was a missile defense destroyer, with a very powerful anti-missile defense. And on the planet STO who, when trying to shoot down these ships with missiles, defended them. In total, they were able to shoot down 300 of my good fast rockets at a speed of 37000 km / s.
I am definitely sure that both destroyers and STOs fired at the missiles.

But after I destroyed these destroyers with beam ships, when attacked with STO missiles, they did not shoot them down at all. What conclusion can I draw ...? Perhaps the problem is either with the orders, or (which is quite likely) - with the absence of an active sensor with a resolution of 1.

[Steve Walmsley]

I think this is a fair summary. I am currently coding box-launcher FAC flotillas for NPRs, so it won't be a major step from there to carriers when I get around to it. I might also look at reduced-size launchers for major warships. The scouting and anti-scouting role is trickier, although some form of random patrolling or buoy deployment might work.

Thank you for your work!

I can add information from my observations:
1. The most long-term is nevertheless for the AI ​​to unite its fleet before the main battle.
2. I noticed one more drawback:
Above the enemy planet was a missile defense destroyer, with a very powerful anti-missile defense. And on the planet STO who, when trying to shoot down these ships with missiles, defended them. In total, they were able to shoot down 300 of my good fast rockets at a speed of 37000 km / s.
I am definitely sure that both destroyers and STOs fired at the missiles.

But after I destroyed these destroyers with beam ships, when attacked with STO missiles, they did not shoot them down at all. What conclusion can I draw ...? Perhaps the problem is either with the orders, or (which is quite likely) - with the absence of an active sensor with a resolution of 1.

These are both already in the next version. Its probably worth reading through the change log for v2.0.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12523.0