Author Topic: Repeated Jumps  (Read 6295 times)

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Offline Migi

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Re: Repeated Jumps
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2021, 10:09:50 AM »
At any rate, perhaps we should update http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg113856#msg113856. It should mention stabilized jump points at least.

Why? There are no special rules to how jump shock works for when a transit is done via stabilized JPs as opposed to any other method.
There is clearly a lot of confusion around jump shock so I don't see why some clarification about not-necessarily-intuitive scenarios would be a bad thing.
Most AARs describe jump shock affecting the crew. The wiki says it's a "sensor distortion effect" so I guess the fact that jump drives are affected changed with C#?
If you read the exact wording, the 1.0 post says that jump shock affects the ship, which leads to the following train of thought: ship is affected by jump shock, jump shock disables jump engines, therefore ship can't transit jump points.
The exception (1.13 and earlier): it can transit a stabilised jump points because those don't require jump engines to transit.


Quote
If an NPR fleet chases another fleet across a jump point, can the chasing fleet shoot immediately? Does it make a difference if the JP is stabilised?

No, the chasing fleet would suffer jump shock from transitting.
For some reason I had forgotten that Beam Fire Controls would be affected.


Maybe a different question to ask is why one both sides don't try to retreat in-system?
Rather than trying to flee to an adjacent system, why don't they attempt to link up with a friendly fleet or flee towards a core system?
As long as the path to a friendly fleet or core system is in a direction for both sides, it will cause them to break contact.

Because if the enemy is armed and you are not, you are a lot safer on the other side of a jump point than heading in-system, especially as you are probably slower. The ship would be wreckage long before reaching a population or friendly fleet if it stayed in range of the enemy force. The NPRs assess the best option to reach safety as quickly as possible. The idea here is for the NPRs to behave in a way that gives them the best chance to survive, not the one that creates the fewest interrupts for a player. I just need to deal with any repetitive situations caused by the need for self-preservation.

So in a scenario (different to the one you had) where two fleets meet at a *stabilised* jump point, and both sides believe that Fleet S is stronger than Fleet W. Fleet S tries to engage and Fleet W tries to escape.
In 1.13 and earlier being able to transit every increment would allow Fleet W to remain out of range by keeping the jump point 'between' them forever.*
In 2.0 neither side will be able to transit every increment. Now Fleet W needs to recover from jump shock faster than Fleet S in order to keep jumping before Fleet S can shoot. Eventually, through random chance, (accelerated or slowed if there is difference in crew grade) Fleet S will recover faster and fire upon Fleet W, so continuous transiting is no longer a guarantee of safety.
Does that mean you'll change the AI so that fleets are less likely to try and shield themselves by continually jumping? Or is it moot because they will get destroyed eventually either way?


*If Fleet S is strong enough, it can split and cover both sides at the same time. On a long enough time scale one side will build and send reinforcements.
 
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Offline Density

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Re: Repeated Jumps
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2021, 09:20:19 PM »
At any rate, perhaps we should update http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg113856#msg113856. It should mention stabilized jump points at least.

Why? There are no special rules to how jump shock works for when a transit is done via stabilized JPs as opposed to any other method.
There is clearly a lot of confusion around jump shock so I don't see why some clarification about not-necessarily-intuitive scenarios would be a bad thing.
Most AARs describe jump shock affecting the crew. The wiki says it's a "sensor distortion effect" so I guess the fact that jump drives are affected changed with C#?
If you read the exact wording, the 1.0 post says that jump shock affects the ship, which leads to the following train of thought: ship is affected by jump shock, jump shock disables jump engines, therefore ship can't transit jump points.
The exception (1.13 and earlier): it can transit a stabilised jump points because those don't require jump engines to transit.
I'm not opposed to a clarification, I'm opposed to calling it an exception and to singling out stabilized JPs; players may still assume there might be more to stabilized JPs than they are being told. I would phrase it something like:
In 1.13 and earlier, ships affected by jump shock can transit jump points when a non-shocked method is available, such as a stabilized jump point or another jump engine (i.e. a jump tender).
and even that isn't perfect because it doesn't really get into the non-intuitiveness of the current rules, which boils down to: a jump engine can be disabled from shock without being used, and a jump engine can be used without suffering shock.

Anyway, yeah, another good thing about the change is that it'll be more intuitive and much easier to explain.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 09:43:06 PM by Density »