ruins, "hostile robotic soldiers", and espionage

[Deoxy (OP)]

Possible minor spoilers ahead.

The first time I found ruins, I got some hostile robotic soldiers.  My engineers were almost wiped out, so I pulled them off, and the robots took the colony.  I promptly put another colony on the planet, put some troops there, and took it back.  Yay.

Well, I've just found hostile robotic soldiers again, but the colony is quite marginal at the moment (HIGH colony cost) and the population is low...

What if I just let them have it, then put my own colony there and put an espionage team... is it worth doing?  Anybody tried that?  Seems like a nifty (possibly mildly exploity) way to get some tech and possibly knowledge of the universe at large, based on what I've read about espionage in general.

Or are precursors immune to espionage?

[ZimRathbone]

Why dont you cover the engineers with some combat troops?

My standard Engineer Division is made up like this

 (edited due to Imperial Princess demanding supplies before I was finished)
 

Engineer Corps (Division HQ)
    Light Brigade HQ
         MI Battalion (x2)
    Engineer Regiment (Brigade HQ)
         Eng Brigade (x4)

This takes up the same transport space as a regular Full Strength Division (ie 21 Batallions) , can be Loaded or Dropped as 1 unit refernce (if you check the appropiate box).  The MI can be any troop type you like (or have avaliable).  The Regiment HQs are just regular Brigade HQs, but are needed as you cant put Engineer Brigades directly under Divisions - despite the name they act as Battaions for reporting purposes

[Deoxy (OP)]

Why dont you cover the engineers with some combat troops?

My standard Engineer Division is made up like this

Division HQ
    Light Brigade
         3x MI Battalion

The first time, I didn't know that could happen... this time, I most certainly did have some backup for them.  I was considering intentionally giving the colony to them to give me a local safe source to steal tech from, since it has no minerals, 13.something colony cost, and less than 1 million supported population at the moment, so they really couldn't do anything to me from there.

I'm trying it out - I'll report back on if I ever manage to steal anything.

How long does espionage usually take, anyway?  I've never tried it before...

[ZimRathbone]

The first time, I didn't know that could happen... this time, I most certainly did have some backup for them.  I was considering intentionally giving the colony to them to give me a local safe source to steal tech from, since it has no minerals, 13.something colony cost, and less than 1 million supported population at the moment, so they really couldn't do anything to me from there.

I'm trying it out - I'll report back on if I ever manage to steal anything.

How long does espionage usually take, anyway?  I've never tried it before...

I've never seen any espionage results from NPRs in my games, although I have seen mention in the writeups of other players - I figure that it will probably be a similar mechanic to the Xeno teams/Geosurvey teams (ie random roll  based on the skill of the team giving a chance of an event) rather than the Diplomacy mechanic (steady application of the teams skill to the relationship statistic).  When it was first introduced there was a requiremnt that the team be based on a body where the Target race had a population but I think that got dropped fairly quickly (or I may be confusing it with the Diplomacy team)


I doubt however that it will work with the "special" NPRs (Invaders, Precursors, Swarm) or ruins as they dont do tech research or many other things the way real races do

[welchbloke]

 When it was first introduced there was a requiremnt that the team be based on a body where the Target race had a population but I think that got dropped fairly quickly (or I may be confusing it with the Diplomacy team)

I think you are confusing it with diplomacy teams, espionage teams definitely need to be on a planet with a target population. I don't know what the actually espionage algorithm is; however, I  do know it can take years. In my last game a team got some system data and were then found and killed in the next 5 day segment. It made for a great narrative

[sloanjh]

I think you are confusing it with diplomacy teams, espionage teams definitely need to be on a planet with a target population. I don't know what the actually espionage algorithm is; however, I  do know it can take years. In my last game a team got some system data and were then found and killed in the next 5 day segment. It made for a great narrative

Your race gradually accumulates espionage points, ESP (ok, not really "ESP", but I liked the whole psychic-spy tie-in).  When you've got enough, I believe you get a roll to see if you get something.  Picking up lifepods is also a way to accumulate espionage points.  I have no idea how quickly they accumulate - all I know is I ask Steve about why I kept picking up life pods and having nothing.  IIRC his answer led me to understand that you need to pick up prisoners numbered in the 1000s to have a chance of getting anything.  You can probably find the thread in question with a board search.

John

[welchbloke]

Your race gradually accumulates espionage points, ESP (ok, not really "ESP", but I liked the whole psychic-spy tie-in).  When you've got enough, I believe you get a roll to see if you get something.  Picking up lifepods is also a way to accumulate espionage points.  I have no idea how quickly they accumulate - all I know is I ask Steve about why I kept picking up life pods and having nothing.  IIRC his answer led me to understand that you need to pick up prisoners numbered in the 1000s to have a chance of getting anything.  You can probably find the thread in question with a board search.

John

The Espionage rules are here:
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,1291.0.html
They are from v3.2 and don't appear to have changed since then.  I was happy with the espionage points collected from prisoners (I do that a lot:) ); however, the first post is an explanation of the team rules.  Going back to the oriognal point of this thread, the team rules only mention NPRs in general terms.  Regarding precursors, there is a statement to the effect that if you haen't established communications with the target race then all collected points are reduced by 80%.  That would cover Precursors in most situations, I don't recall ever establishing comms with them 
What I can't remember is if v3.2 was during the time that Steve had turned off computer controilled whilst he fixed the AI routines.

[Deoxy (OP)]

"there is a statement to the effect that if you haen't established communications with the target race then all collected points are reduced by 80%."

And that may or may not stack with the "not your species" penalty (ESP points halved), and, in a splinter colony like this, the "low population" penalty (multiplied by population/10 million).

OUCH.  No wonder this is taking so long...  I did manage to get a missile design, with two teams going for a while, but um, yeah... I think I'm done with that for now.  It's a nifty idea, and I might try it again if I can manage to "lose" a colony again later when I have a LOT more espionage-capable officers (as the Precursors are bound to have some sweet tech, eh?), but for now... not worth it.

It does seem to work, though, which is kinda cool/exploity.

[Steve Walmsley]

Yes, this would be considered an exploit, although it's primarily a solitaire game so whether anyone uses this exploit is up to them. I've closed the loophole for the next version.

Steve

[Deoxy (OP)]

Hey, a reply from Steve!  Now I feel special!  :-)

So, how are you closing it?  No more robotic soldiers?  Robotic soldiers that "win" destroy the colony instead of take it over?  Each ruins robotic soldiers take over colonies for the their own long-dead race instead of all somehow belonging to the Precursors?  Or just making Precursors immune to espionage?

Enquiring minds want to know...  heh.

[Steve Walmsley]

Hey, a reply from Steve!  Now I feel special!  :-)

So, how are you closing it?  No more robotic soldiers?  Robotic soldiers that "win" destroy the colony instead of take it over?  Each ruins robotic soldiers take over colonies for the their own long-dead race instead of all somehow belonging to the Precursors?  Or just making Precursors immune to espionage?

Enquiring minds want to know...  heh.

I have just made precursor populations immune to espionage

Steve

[Deoxy (OP)]

I have just made precursor populations immune to espionage

Steve

That's certainly the simplest way - the most "error proof", too.  Can't fault the logic on that.

I do think, in case you just need more to do (hahahahahahahahaha....), that it might make more in-game sense for populations taken over by robots never rise above "occupied" and occupied populations in general never give espionage points.  That would serve the same purpose without allowing extinct Precursors to so easily "resurrect" themselves using someone a totally different population of beings.

The other option would be to have colonies that get taken over by robots to just be completely annihilated (or at least their population, if not their stuff).  That would reduce espionage to 0 as well and also solve the issue mentioned above.

[ardem]

I think annihilation over several months, large chucks at first, then fewer and fewer, this display the population hiding, running etc from the robots.