Author Topic: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet  (Read 2666 times)

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Offline SevenOfCarina

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Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« on: April 02, 2018, 06:42:23 AM »
Hello! I'm a newbie Aurora player, and I'm absolutely loving the game so far.     This is my first time on these boards, so I apologize in advance if I'm violating some unspoken rule, but with that being said, I'd like to request some help - the United Earth Confederacy is constructing a fleet, and, err, we don't know quite how well it'll fare in combat.     We've been quite isolationist so far - we've not significantly expanded beyond Solsys, which we've heavily fortified, and all we've been doing is research, research, and more research.     However, the admiralty figures we'll have to expand eventually, so they had our engineers draft some preliminary designs to ensure we have the force projection capabilities when the time comes.           

EDIT : The fleet has been revised - the below information is obsolete.  The updated designs are lower down in the thread.

The fleet will consist of eight mainline warships and four auxiliary vessels, for a total of twelve, plus four strikecraft, which will be divided into a mainline fleet of six vessels and an auxiliary fleet of six vessels.     The fleet speed has been standardized at 10,000 km/s to ensure quick response and force concentration in the event of an attack in our territory.     Our doctrine emphasizes ranged warfare and a significant speed advantage to execute lightning-fast strikes deep in enemy volumes.     To that end, fleet deployment times are very short - a mere four months, which should be sufficient to burn through the tanks twice over.           

Jump capabilities and missile-detection sensors will be provided by the Prophetic Ingress class Jump Cruiser, of which we will build two - one to shift the mainline fleet, and another to accompany the auxiliary fleet.           
Code: [Select]
Prophetic Ingress class Jump Cruiser    8 000 tons     267 Crew     2549.8 BP      TCS 160  TH 1600  EM 1200
10000 km/s    JR 6-750     Armour 4-35     Shields 40-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 32     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.42 Years     MSP 2311    AFR 44%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 132    5YR 1979    Max Repair 864 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Spare Berths 0   

J8000(6-750) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 8000 tons    Distance 750k km     Squadron Size 6
1600 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 1600    Fuel Use 64.76%    Signature 1600    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 700 000 Litres    Range 24.3 billion km   (28 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  160 Litres per hour  (3 840 per day)

Active Search Sensor MR155-R1 (1)     GPS 864     Range 155.5m km    MCR 16.9m km    Resolution 1
ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Long-range sensor capabilities and area surveillance will be handled by the Reticent Witness class Surveillance Cruiser, which mounts both resolution 10 and resolution 100 active sensors.     One will be built to accompany the mainline fleet.           
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Reticent Witness class Surveillance Cruiser    8 000 tons     267 Crew     3341.8 BP      TCS 160  TH 1600  EM 1200
10000 km/s     Armour 4-35     Shields 40-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 32     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.86 Years     MSP 3263    AFR 40%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 162    5YR 2425    Max Repair 864 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Spare Berths 3   

1600 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 1600    Fuel Use 64.76%    Signature 1600    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 700 000 Litres    Range 24.3 billion km   (28 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  160 Litres per hour  (3 840 per day)

Active Search Sensor MR491-R10 (1)     GPS 8640     Range 491.8m km    Resolution 10
Active Search Sensor MR1555-R100 (1)     GPS 86400     Range 1 555.2m km    Resolution 100
ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Primary offensive capabilities will be provided by the Pale Liberation class Missile Cruiser, each of which can throw 20-missile salvos at fighter-sized targets nearly 500 million kilometers distant, and has sufficient magazine depth to sustain that fire.     Two will be built.       The missile of choice is the Demure ASM, which is a two stage design - the first stage provides 500 million kilometers of range at 24000 km/s, while the second stage ignites at 16 million kilometers, pushes 60,000 km/s, carries a strength-4 warhead, mounts active sensors capable of detecting a resolution 10 target at 10,000 km, and is agile enough to accurately hit a craft moving at 12,500 km/s.           
Code: [Select]
Pale Liberation class Missile Cruiser    8 000 tons     207 Crew     2185 BP      TCS 160  TH 1600  EM 1200
10000 km/s     Armour 4-35     Shields 40-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 26.4
Maint Life 5.3 Years     MSP 1707    AFR 51%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 101    5YR 1522    Max Repair 800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Spare Berths 4   
Magazine 440   

1600 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 1600    Fuel Use 64.76%    Signature 1600    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 700 000 Litres    Range 24.3 billion km   (28 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  160 Litres per hour  (3 840 per day)

Size 4 Missile Launcher (33% Reduction) (20)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 400
Missile Fire Control FC491-R10 (1)     Range 491.8m km    Resolution 10
Demure ASM (110)  Speed: 24 000 km/s   End: 374.6m    Range: 555.4m km   WH: 0    Size: 4    TH: 80/48/24
Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Primary defensive capabilities will be provided by the Mirthless Tribulation class Area Defense Cruiser, each of which will carry 256 Sonance AMMs, which have a range of 16.    9 million kilometers and an accuracy of 40% against targets moving at 60,000 km/s.       Sufficient launchers have been provided to ensure the magazines can be emptied before a single salvo of equal-tech missiles can cross active sensor range.     Each vessel will also mount a single Triple Gauss Cannon Turret to mop up surviving missiles, as well as to ensure that some point-defense capability is retained once missile stores have been exhausted.       Two will be built.           
Code: [Select]
Mirthless Tribulation class Area Defence Cruiser    8 000 tons     243 Crew     2492.52 BP      TCS 160  TH 1600  EM 1200
10000 km/s     Armour 4-35     Shields 40-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 27.2
Maint Life 5.28 Years     MSP 1967    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 118    5YR 1768    Max Repair 800 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 256   

1600 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 1600    Fuel Use 64.76%    Signature 1600    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 700 000 Litres    Range 24.3 billion km   (28 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (10)   Total Fuel Cost  160 Litres per hour  (3 840 per day)

Triple Gauss Cannon R4-100 Turret (1x12)    Range 40 000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 96-25000 (1)    Max Range: 192 000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC155-R1 (1)     Range 155.5m km    Resolution 1
Sonance AMM (256)  Speed: 60 000 km/s   End: 4.7m    Range: 16.9m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 800/480/240
Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

To support deep-strike operations and enhance force-projection capabilities, two Temperance class Military Tankers and two Abstinence class Ammunition Transports will be built and attached to the auxiliary fleet.     These auxiliaries should double the effective range of the fleet, will provide a full reload for the fleet's magazines, and will also provide some additional maintenance supplies.           
Code: [Select]
Temperance class Military Tanker    8 000 tons     132 Crew     1641.8 BP      TCS 160  TH 1600  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 2-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.38 Years     MSP 1142    AFR 57%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 66    5YR 990    Max Repair 400 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Spare Berths 0   

800 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 800    Fuel Use 24%    Signature 800    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 3 000 000 Litres    Range 281.3 billion km   (325 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Abstinence class Ammunition Transport    8 000 tons     165 Crew     1512.4 BP      TCS 160  TH 1600  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 4-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.26 Years     MSP 1276    AFR 47%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 77    5YR 1155    Max Repair 400 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 696   

800 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 800    Fuel Use 24%    Signature 800    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 550 000 Litres    Range 51.6 billion km   (59 days at full power)

Sonance AMM (256)  Speed: 60 000 km/s   End: 4.7m    Range: 16.9m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 800/480/240
Demure ASM (110)  Speed: 24 000 km/s   End: 374.6m    Range: 555.4m km   WH: 0    Size: 4    TH: 80/48/24

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Additionally, a single Sycophant Oath class Escort Carrier will also be built to accompany the auxiliary fleet, with the primary aim of providing a degree of flexibility, and to ensure that the auxiliary fleet will not be left defenseless.     The carrier's strike group will consist of four laser-armed Relentless Pursuit class Fast Attack Craft, which should prove sufficient to engage enemy fighters at range and to provide an alternative to missiles to finish-off disabled warships .           
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Sycophant Oath class Escort Carrier    8 000 tons     172 Crew     1458.8 BP      TCS 160  TH 1600  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 2-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 11     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.34 Years     MSP 1220    AFR 47%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 72    5YR 1073    Max Repair 400 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Flight Crew Berths 48   
Hangar Deck Capacity 2000 tons     

800 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 800    Fuel Use 24%    Signature 800    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 670 000 Litres    Range 62.8 billion km   (72 days at full power)

Strike Group
4x Relentless Pursuit Fast Attack Craft   Speed: 20000 km/s    Size: 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Relentless Pursuit class Fast Attack Craft    500 tons     12 Crew     291.8 BP      TCS 10  TH 200  EM 0
20000 km/s     Armour 2-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2
Maint Life 2.39 Years     MSP 36    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 9    5YR 130    Max Repair 108 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.2 months    Spare Berths 5   

200 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 200    Fuel Use 379.47%    Signature 200    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 60 000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km   (3 days at full power)

18cm C0.3 Soft X-ray Laser (1)    Range 288 000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 8-0.3     RM 6    ROF 135        8 8 8 8 8 8 6 6 5 4
Fire Control S01.5 144-5000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 288 000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     97 93 90 86 83 79 76 72 69 65
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 0.8    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

So where and how badly have I screwed up? Is there an easily exploitable weakness that'll let this fleet be murdered by another that's a tenth of the cost? ;D

EDIT : Oh, and another question - given the same tech level, and approximately the same resources [~30,000 BP], how would you best counter this fleet? Swarms of strikecraft? Stealthed Destroyers?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 10:34:25 PM by CatastrophicReEntry »
 

Online davidb86

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2018, 02:32:53 PM »
Quick Review

Quote
Demure ASM (110)  Speed: 24 000 km/s   End: 374.6m    Range: 555.4m km   WH: 0    Size: 4    TH: 80/48/24
Your Demure ASM is listed as 0 warhead.  At 24,000 km/s it would have a difficult time getting hits against ships similar to yours and be susceptible to AMM and beam fire.

Your auxiliary fleet has no missile defense, although the jump cruiser does at least have a missile detection sensor so they will have 5-10 minutes warning before they are destroyed.  The fighters have a 135 second recharge time limiting the ability to intercept missiles.
 

Offline SevenOfCarina

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2018, 10:22:59 PM »
Quote from: CatastrophicReEntry link=topic=10001.        msg107608#msg107608 date=1522669343
The missile of choice is the Demure ASM, which is a two stage design - the first stage provides 500 million kilometers of range at 24,000 km/s, while the second stage ignites at 16 million kilometers, pushes 60,000 km/s, carries a strength-4 warhead, mounts active sensors capable of detecting a resolution 10 target at 10,000 km, and is agile enough to accurately hit a craft moving at 12,500 km/s.                 
Four Sonance AMMs are needed per Demure ASM terminal stage to get the chance of a complete miss down to a reasonable 12. 96%.  I'm hoping that NPR/spoiler missiles will be sufficiently bad that I can get away with using two AMMs per missile.       

As for your other point, I'll see if I can repurpose one of the beam-defence satellite designs I keep around for defending Earth.   They have insane tracking speed [~75,000 km/s], but are unfortunately stationary, so I'll see what I can do.       

EDIT : I had to downgrade the laser system and the Beam Fire Control, but I managed to squeeze in a 2 HS boosted propulsion plant.  It's essentially a new design, though it still retains the maintenance lifetime of the old one.   
Code: [Select]
Pervasive Itch class Fast Attack Craft    500 tons     5 Crew     390. 3 BP      TCS 10  TH 100  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3. 87
Maint Life 5. 85 Years     MSP 122    AFR 8%    IFR 0. 1%    1YR 6    5YR 91    Max Repair 270 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0. 1 months    Spare Berths 3   

100 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 100    Fuel Use 387. 38%    Signature 100    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 0. 5 billion km   (12 hours at full power)

Single 10cm C1. 5 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (1x1)    Range 180 000km     TS: 75000 km/s     Power 3-2     RM 6    ROF 10        3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
Fire Control S03 96-18750 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 192 000 km   TS: 75000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Tokamak Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (2)     Total Power Output 1. 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
95% accuracy against equal-tech AMMs.   Will this do?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 12:15:32 AM by CatastrophicReEntry »
 
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Offline Bobtown

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2018, 03:36:58 AM »
Hey,
after a quick look over your designs there are a few things that come to mind:

1) Your weaponry seems ok to me, they look functional and might penetrate PD fire, though a ROF of 400sec on your ASM seems high to me.
2) Your maint life is set to ~5+ Years on your ships, that seems awfully high with a 4 months deployment time.
3) You could take away some maint life for extra armor (2 on tanker and carrier seems low for important ships)
4) I always get scared with military ships that have one big engine.  If it gets hit, you are screwed.  I always devide engine power over 2(sometimes more) engines (yes, less fuel efficiency, but the first time one gets destroyed in combat you will be happy for that sacrifice).
5) You might want to consider HS 1~5 Backup Active sonsors on your offensive ships, in case your big sensors are taken out.  Again a sacrifice for the worst case, but stuff like that can happen.

That's about all i can see "wrong" with this.

To counter this i would likeley try to take advantage of the 400sec reload on your launchers, design PD for short burst volume and decide where to go from there (wait out empty mags with my own missles or close in with beams, 400sec can be a LONG time in space battle).
 
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Offline SevenOfCarina

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2018, 05:18:03 AM »
Than you!  :D

As for your issues :

1) The 400 second reload rate is deliberate.  Consider an attack by a swarm of missile-armed FACs capable of 20,000 km/s.  This swarm will be detected at ~490 million kilometers, but to ensure that I don't lose missiles I'll probably only start firing at ~400 million kilometers.  Since my ships move at 10,000 km/s, that is a relative velocity of 10,000 km/s.  If I use 0. 25 launchers instead of 0. 33 launchers, in the 2000 seconds it'll take for my launchers to reload, the swarm will advance 20 million kilometers, and that is ignoring firing delays.  Effectively, I won't be able to toss all eleven missile salvos before an FAC swarm closes to missile range and shreds me.  There isn't any merit to increasing salvo size either, since my AMM ships can still fire at every missile I can launch even if I launch them all at once.  At least, that's my reasoning, is it flawed?  :P

2) These ships are meant to sit at small, growing colonies at opposite ends of my empire.  Deployment times shouldn't be an issue, it's highly unlikely a single strike will take more than four months.  The excessive maintenance life is for two reasons - one, there's no way in hell I'll be able to drag maintenance facilities of the size needed to a backwater colony, and two, I need the MSP to ensure I can repair the overboosted propulsion plant even in the unlikely event that it is damaged.

3) I believe points 3, 4, and 5 may be ameliorated if I expand on my doctrine.

With this particular fleet, the modus operandi is to concentrate all twelve ships into a single gigantic blob and keep them together unless and until I detect hostile forces on my sensors.  At that point, the two tankers, the two transports, and the escort carrier retreat to a position ~100 million kilometers behind the mainline fleet to ensure they are not targeted by enemy missiles, though I may opt to retain them if the opponent has primarily beam combatants.  My sensor envelope stretches to 1. 5 billion kilometers - a flanking action is highly unlikely and I will determine engagement range at all times.  Every vessel, at all points, will remain within sensor range of both the Prophetic Ingress class, and the Reticent Witness class vessels.  There are two Prophetic Ingress class vessels - detection will not be compromised even in the unlikely event that I lose one.  The resolution 1 sensors have a range of 150 million kilometers - a higher resolution backup of reasonable size is not going to outrange them.  My fleet depends heavily on active defenses and shields - if I start taking armor damage, then I'm doing something wrong.   ;D

TL;DR : The doctrine is speed, range, and active defense.
 
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Offline Gabethebaldandbold

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2018, 05:10:17 PM »
Than you!  :D

As for your issues :

1) The 400 second reload rate is deliberate.  Consider an attack by a swarm of missile-armed FACs capable of 20,000 km/s.  This swarm will be detected at ~490 million kilometers, but to ensure that I don't lose missiles I'll probably only start firing at ~400 million kilometers.  Since my ships move at 10,000 km/s, that is a relative velocity of 10,000 km/s.  If I use 0. 25 launchers instead of 0. 33 launchers, in the 2000 seconds it'll take for my launchers to reload, the swarm will advance 20 million kilometers, and that is ignoring firing delays.  Effectively, I won't be able to toss all eleven missile salvos before an FAC swarm closes to missile range and shreds me.  There isn't any merit to increasing salvo size either, since my AMM ships can still fire at every missile I can launch even if I launch them all at once.  At least, that's my reasoning, is it flawed?  :P
 
Salvo size is usually not a problem with long range AMM point defense, instead you should think more about missiles per minute. Also, you get multiple chances to engage enemy missiles. As soon as your missiles hit, your ships will send the adequate amount of missiles to face any surviving missiles, wich is to say that at 18 million Km 30-40% chance means you can often sit at 1vs1 pd and have zero to no bleedtrhough.
To see how likely a missile is to punch through you defenses what you need is some probability calculus. If you assume a single missile salvo gets through all your defenses, and all missiles are properly engaged you can see that the density of engagements gets exponentially bigger, because it takes a long-ass time to travel 18 million km and a short-ass time to travel 1 millon km. If you know the enemy missile speed (and your missile speed) you can try to calculate how many engagement chances you have. Lets say you get 7 engagement chances.
Lets say you have a 20% hit chance, against a missile with no armour. We are going 1 vs 1. You might be thinking right now, that I am nuts. This is never going to work. The enemy has a 80% of geting through. Well... against a single engagement yes... agains 7? Not so sure. So you see, to get through all engagements, you need to get through the first AND the second AND the third and etc. And in probability, AND means you multiply. Since 80% is just a sexy way of saying 80/100 that means if we do math teacher witchcraft and reduce this to a "simple" equation, you get that X*=80/100 x 80/100 x 80/100 x 80/100 x 80/100 x 80/100 x 80/100
*(X is the chance a random enemy missile is going to go through all your defenses unscathed)
80/100 is 0.8 so lets use that on the calculator.
You get that the chance an enemy missile will get through all 7 engagements is about 20%. I say thats still enough to wreck a ship so lets say you do 2 vs 1 pd. How do you calculate that? Well I am not a math person and I dont want to go find a completely acjrate model so I assume the chance will be about the same as if you double the amount of engagements so 14 engagements. Thats a 4% chance you'll get hit by an enemy missile. The followers of whatever launch 100 missiles at your face and your point blank defenses and shields gotta do with about 4. Very reasonable.
Whats that gotta do with the reduced size on my launchers? You ask. Well with that reload time, you will always have a 400 s between your engagement chances, which means that at a certain point, you stop scaling exponentially and start scaling linearly, geting less chances to engage the enemy. So instead of geting say 7 engagement chances you would be geting 5, 4 engagement chances. Meaning you would need to use 3 vs 1 and 4 vs 1 much more frequently, geting more overkill and wasting missiles. I will try calculating your number of engagements against some decent same tech-level missiles using a 5 second reload launcher to see how crazy it gets and then I'll post it here
To beam, or not to beam.   That is the question
 

Offline SevenOfCarina

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2018, 05:19:03 PM »
Not to sound condescending here, but I am capable of basic math.  You're basically explaining the rationale behind my various design choices, and I'm not sure why?  ???
 

Offline Gabethebaldandbold

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 06:36:23 PM »
Not to sound condescending here, but I am capable of basic math.  You're basically explaining the rationale behind my various design choices, and I'm not sure why?  ???
im trying to sound smart god dang it
To beam, or not to beam.   That is the question
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2018, 07:21:55 PM »
Than you!  :D

As for your issues :

1) The 400 second reload rate is deliberate.  Consider an attack by a swarm of missile-armed FACs capable of 20,000 km/s.  This swarm will be detected at ~490 million kilometers, but to ensure that I don't lose missiles I'll probably only start firing at ~400 million kilometers.  Since my ships move at 10,000 km/s, that is a relative velocity of 10,000 km/s.  If I use 0. 25 launchers instead of 0. 33 launchers, in the 2000 seconds it'll take for my launchers to reload, the swarm will advance 20 million kilometers, and that is ignoring firing delays.  Effectively, I won't be able to toss all eleven missile salvos before an FAC swarm closes to missile range and shreds me.  There isn't any merit to increasing salvo size either, since my AMM ships can still fire at every missile I can launch even if I launch them all at once.  At least, that's my reasoning, is it flawed?  :P


Not sure, as I have not read the entire thread... But it seems like you are not taking into account enemy ECM. This will degrade your detection range.
 

Offline Gabethebaldandbold

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 07:44:18 PM »
Code: [Select]
ASM(A)-6S9D (252)  Speed: 28 000 km/s   End: 20.6m    Range: 34.6m km   WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 121/72/36 this is the missile you are facing, it was designed by 83Athom using tech given by the AI. its a bit faster than your demure's first stage, not sure how your second stage is so cant use that to calculate.
since his missile is 28000km/s fast, the relative speed between your missiles is 88000 km/s. your missile goes at 60000km/s so you have 70% of the relative speed, preserving 70% of the distance. the initial engagement begins at roughly 16 million kilometers so lets go from there
1°engagement= 16000k (km)
2°engagement= 1° engagement x 0.7
n°engagement= n-1°engagement x 0.7
the last engagement is at point blank, so its about the distance the enemy missile translates in a 5 s increment, wich in this case is about 150k km
so lets see
1° engagement= 16000k(can fire 32 salvos til next engagement)
2° engagement= 11200k(can fire 22 salvos til next engagement)
3° engagement= 7840k(can fire 15 salvos til next engagement)
4° engagement= 5488k(can fire 10 salvos til next engagement)
5° engagement= 3841k(can fire 7 salvos til next engagement)
6° engagement= 2689k(can fire 5 salvos til next engagement)
7° engagement= 1882k(can fire 3 salvos til next engagement)
8° engagement= 1317k(can fire 2 salvos til next engagement)
9° engagement= 922k(can fire 1 salvos til next engagement)
10° engagement= 645k(can fire 1 salvos til next engagement)
11° engagement= 451k(can fire 1 salvos til next engagement)
12° engagement= 316k(can fire 1 salvos til next engagement)
13° engagement= actually 150k because the enemy missile goes 150k every 5 seconds (last desperate salvo)
lets say thats the last one.
so you get 13 engagements. I say that with your gauss pd you should be able to deal with some 7 missiles at least, I know it from experiene and am not willing to calculate it right now.
if we assume you have infinite tubes, you can fire at all missiles all times, and the previous model will be valid for all engagements. but you dont have infinite tubes. you get 4 per ship.
ps. I was kinda distrated and I thought it was your point defense that was rocking a 400 second reload and was wondering what the hell was happening, now I see whats going on and feel very awkward but im kinda having fun so might as well post it
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Offline Gabethebaldandbold

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2018, 07:49:10 PM »
am I ruining this post? I get the feeling I am ruining this post. should I continue and try seeing how many missiles we would need to destroy a single ship in one salvo?
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Offline SevenOfCarina

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »
Quote from: Gabethebaldandbold link=topic=10001.  msg107644#msg107644 date=1522802950
am I ruining this post? I get the feeling I am ruining this post.   should I continue and try seeing how many missiles we would need to destroy a single ship in one salvo?
You're not ruining this thread.   Your assistance is appreciated.   Go ahead. 

For everyone else, acting on your suggestions, I've enacted extensive modifications, the most significant of which I've listed here :
  • All vessels have been expanded to 10,000 tons to make room for modifications. 
  • The propulsion plant has been enlarged, and split in two, with the boost reduced to 1.  25x. 
  • Shield strength has been increased to 60 on all vessels. 
  • Maintenance life has been reduced to ~2 years for all vessels. 
  • Backup sensors have been attached to the Guided Missile Cruiser and Missile Defense Cruiser.
  • The res-100 sensor on the Surveillance Cruiser has been enlarged.
  • Magazines have been expanded on all vessels. 
  • The Demure ASM has been replaced by the Quiescence ASM, which is more capable, but larger. 
  • The 0.  33 size-4 launchers have been replaced by 0.  25 size-5 launchers in the Guided Missile Cruiser. 
  • Two extra size-1 launchers have been added to the Missile Defense Cruiser. 
  • The tanker design has been significantly revised. 

Since there has been significant confusion regarding the missiles I'm using, I've listed them here :

Sonance Anti-Missile Missile
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 40
Speed: 60000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 5 minutes   Range: 16.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 1.59
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 2400%   3k km/s 800%   5k km/s 480%   10k km/s 240%
Materials Required:    0.25x Tritanium   1.34x Gallicite   Fuel x200

Quiescence Anti-Ship Missile
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 5 MSP  (0.25 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 20000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 10.1 hours   Range: 730.6m km
Cost Per Missile: 4.7764
Second Stage: Quiescence Terminal Stage x1
Second Stage Separation Range: 16 000 000 km
Overall Endurance: 10 hours   Overall Range: 752.0m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 200%   3k km/s 60%   5k km/s 40%   10k km/s 20%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   0.0108x Boronide   0.0176x Uridium   3.748x Gallicite   Fuel x2143
Quiescence Terminal Stage
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 2.25 MSP  (0.1125 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 16
Speed: 80000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 4 minutes   Range: 21.4m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.0176   Sensitivity Modifier: 180%
Resolution: 10    Maximum Range vs 500 ton object (or larger): 10 000 km
Cost Per Missile: 3.5264
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1280%   3k km/s 416%   5k km/s 256%   10k km/s 128%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   0.0108x Boronide   0.0176x Uridium   2.498x Gallicite   Fuel x268

And here's the revised fleet :

1 X Prophetic Ingress class Area Surveillance Cruiser
Code: [Select]
Prophetic Ingress class Area Surveillance Cruiser    10 000 tons     286 Crew     2819.6 BP      TCS 200  TH 2000  EM 1800
10000 km/s    JR 6-1000     Armour 4-41     Shields 60-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 0
Maint Life 3.45 Years     MSP 1780    AFR 79%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 228    5YR 3415    Max Repair 864 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0   

J10000(6-1000) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 1000k km     Squadron Size 6
1000 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 41.93%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 21.5 billion km   (24 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (15)   Total Fuel Cost  240 Litres per hour  (5 760 per day)

Active Search Sensor MR155-R1 (1)     GPS 864     Range 155.5m km    MCR 16.9m km    Resolution 1
ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

1 X Reticent Witness class Area Surveillance Cruiser
Code: [Select]
Reticent Witness class Area Surveillance Cruiser    10 000 tons     286 Crew     3843.6 BP      TCS 200  TH 2000  EM 1800
10000 km/s     Armour 4-41     Shields 60-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 0
Maint Life 3.28 Years     MSP 2426    AFR 79%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 342    5YR 5123    Max Repair 1152 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 0   

1000 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 41.93%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 21.5 billion km   (24 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (15)   Total Fuel Cost  240 Litres per hour  (5 760 per day)

Active Search Sensor MR491-R10 (1)     GPS 8640     Range 491.8m km    Resolution 10
Active Search Sensor MR2073-R100 (1)     GPS 115200     Range 2 073.6m km    Resolution 100
ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

2 X Mirthless Tribulation class Missile Defence Cruiser
Code: [Select]
Mirthless Tribulation class Missile Defence Cruiser    10 000 tons     259 Crew     2776 BP      TCS 200  TH 2000  EM 1800
10000 km/s     Armour 4-41     Shields 60-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 10
Maint Life 2.41 Years     MSP 1076    AFR 129%    IFR 1.8%    1YR 255    5YR 3820    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 3   
Magazine 550   

1000 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 41.93%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 21.5 billion km   (24 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (15)   Total Fuel Cost  240 Litres per hour  (5 760 per day)

Size 1 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Missile Fire Control FC155-R1 (2)     Range 155.5m km    Resolution 1
Sonance Anti-Missile Missile (550)  Speed: 60 000 km/s   End: 4.7m    Range: 16.9m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 800/480/240

Active Search Sensor MR19-R1 (1)     GPS 108     Range 19.4m km    MCR 2.1m km    Resolution 1
Compact ECCM-2 (2)         ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

2 X Pale Liberation class Guided Missile Cruiser
Code: [Select]
Pale Liberation class Guided Missile Cruiser    10 000 tons     247 Crew     2529.6 BP      TCS 200  TH 2000  EM 1800
10000 km/s     Armour 4-41     Shields 60-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 25
Maint Life 2.69 Years     MSP 1075    AFR 117%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 212    5YR 3178    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 550   

1000 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 41.93%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 21.5 billion km   (24 days at full power)
Theta R300/384 Shields (15)   Total Fuel Cost  240 Litres per hour  (5 760 per day)

Size 5 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (20)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 2500
Missile Fire Control FC491-R10 (1)     Range 491.8m km    Resolution 10
Quiescence Anti-Ship Missile (110)  Speed: 20 000 km/s   End: 608.8m    Range: 746.6m km   WH: 0    Size: 5    TH: 66/40/20

Active Search Sensor MR40-R10 (1)     GPS 720     Range 41.0m km    Resolution 10
Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

1 X Abdication class Fleet Replenishment Vessel
Code: [Select]
Abdication class Fleet Replenishment Vessel    10 000 tons     188 Crew     2082.6 BP      TCS 200  TH 2000  EM 0
10000 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 4-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.81 Years     MSP 1106    AFR 94%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 204    5YR 3054    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 2   

J10000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
1000 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 41.93%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 3 400 000 Litres    Range 146.0 billion km   (168 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

2 X Abstinence class Fleet Replenishment Vessel
Code: [Select]
Abstinence class Fleet Replenishment Vessel    10 000 tons     182 Crew     1943.2 BP      TCS 200  TH 2000  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 4-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.88 Years     MSP 1069    AFR 90%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 189    5YR 2841    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 1100   

1000 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 41.93%    Signature 1000    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 1 400 000 Litres    Range 60.1 billion km   (69 days at full power)

Sonance Anti-Missile Missile (550)  Speed: 60 000 km/s   End: 4.7m    Range: 16.9m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 800/480/240
Quiescence Anti-Ship Missile (110)  Speed: 20 000 km/s   End: 608.8m    Range: 746.6m km   WH: 0    Size: 5    TH: 66/40/20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Nine vessels in all, and yes, I've ditched the carrier.   The auxiliaries will be relying on the mainline fleet's guns for protection. 

But I've also run into a problem - I don't think my fleet's missiles can penetrate it's own anti-missile screen.   Help?  :P

« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 02:22:18 PM by CatastrophicReEntry »
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2018, 02:21:50 PM »

But I've also run into a problem - I don't think my fleet's missiles can penetrate it's own anti-missile screen.  Help?  :P

Time to design new missiles then ;)
 

Offline SevenOfCarina

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2018, 02:24:05 PM »
I'm not sure how I can go about improving my own missiles beyond what I've already done?  :P
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Feedback Requested - IntCon Era Fleet
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2018, 02:26:56 PM »
Maybe design a size 5 missile that does not have a second stage? Bigger warhead.

And the most obvious answer is "Increase your missile tech" :)
 

 

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