Author Topic: C# Aurora v0.x Questions  (Read 95882 times)

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Offline Bughunter

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #420 on: August 29, 2019, 04:13:13 AM »
In my current game an NPR spawned on a planet orbiting a massive star at extreme distance. They are still doing ok and sending ships to other systems, but probably wouldn't without the AI fuel cheat.

In C# since they cannot cheat on fuel, will they have an estimate of what range their designs need to accomplish their missions? In this case with orbiting distance 91b km even a 200b range would just barely take them out of the system and back. And will they recognize the fuel production/logistics required on a strategic level to expand ahead of time and prioritize that.

I don't expect the AI to handle extreme corner cases well, but this may also apply in some more common scenarios like the AI ensuring they actually have the range to get to you before deciding to attack. Just throwing the thought out in case it helps Steve spot a bug in advance.
 

Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #421 on: August 29, 2019, 06:24:34 AM »
In my current game an NPR spawned on a planet orbiting a massive star at extreme distance. They are still doing ok and sending ships to other systems, but probably wouldn't without the AI fuel cheat.

In C# since they cannot cheat on fuel, will they have an estimate of what range their designs need to accomplish their missions? In this case with orbiting distance 91b km even a 200b range would just barely take them out of the system and back. And will they recognize the fuel production/logistics required on a strategic level to expand ahead of time and prioritize that.

I don't expect the AI to handle extreme corner cases well, but this may also apply in some more common scenarios like the AI ensuring they actually have the range to get to you before deciding to attack. Just throwing the thought out in case it helps Steve spot a bug in advance.

in C#, NPRs won't spawn in that situation. The code checks whether the potential home world is within a certain distance of the primary, taking Lagrange points into consideration, before allowing the creation of an NPR.
 

Online Zincat

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #422 on: August 29, 2019, 07:16:28 AM »
In my current game an NPR spawned on a planet orbiting a massive star at extreme distance. They are still doing ok and sending ships to other systems, but probably wouldn't without the AI fuel cheat.

In C# since they cannot cheat on fuel, will they have an estimate of what range their designs need to accomplish their missions? In this case with orbiting distance 91b km even a 200b range would just barely take them out of the system and back. And will they recognize the fuel production/logistics required on a strategic level to expand ahead of time and prioritize that.

I don't expect the AI to handle extreme corner cases well, but this may also apply in some more common scenarios like the AI ensuring they actually have the range to get to you before deciding to attack. Just throwing the thought out in case it helps Steve spot a bug in advance.

in C#, NPRs won't spawn in that situation. The code checks whether the potential home world is within a certain distance of the primary, taking Lagrange points into consideration, before allowing the creation of an NPR.

Do you have any plan to allow us to exploit distant companion stars Steve? It's something that... has been painful for a long while :) It'f fine if it's not in the game at release ofc, I just wanted to know if you do plan to do something about it
 

Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #423 on: August 29, 2019, 07:31:29 AM »
In my current game an NPR spawned on a planet orbiting a massive star at extreme distance. They are still doing ok and sending ships to other systems, but probably wouldn't without the AI fuel cheat.

In C# since they cannot cheat on fuel, will they have an estimate of what range their designs need to accomplish their missions? In this case with orbiting distance 91b km even a 200b range would just barely take them out of the system and back. And will they recognize the fuel production/logistics required on a strategic level to expand ahead of time and prioritize that.

I don't expect the AI to handle extreme corner cases well, but this may also apply in some more common scenarios like the AI ensuring they actually have the range to get to you before deciding to attack. Just throwing the thought out in case it helps Steve spot a bug in advance.

in C#, NPRs won't spawn in that situation. The code checks whether the potential home world is within a certain distance of the primary, taking Lagrange points into consideration, before allowing the creation of an NPR.

Do you have any plan to allow us to exploit distant companion stars Steve? It's something that... has been painful for a long while :) It'f fine if it's not in the game at release ofc, I just wanted to know if you do plan to do something about it

I have two options in mind.

1) Remove planetary systems from stars in that situation post-generation. Doesn't solve the problem exactly but removes the annoyance.

2) Allow stabilisation ships to create new Lagrange points. This would take a varying amount of time depending on the mass of the chosen planet vs the normal minimum mass for the Lagrange point to form. This is my preferred option. I just haven't got around to it yet. You would still need to get a ship to the destination as a long-term project, but that long-term mission would eventually open up the companion system to easier access.
 
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Online Zincat

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #424 on: August 29, 2019, 07:34:28 AM »
I have two options in mind.

1) Remove planetary systems from stars in that situation post-generation. Doesn't solve the problem exactly but removes the annoyance.

2) Allow stabilisation ships to create new Lagrange points. This would take a varying amount of time depending on the mass of the chosen planet vs the normal minimum mass for the Lagrange point to form. This is my preferred option. I just haven't got around to it yet. You would still need to get a ship to the destination as a long-term project, but that long-term mission would eventually open up the companion system to easier access.

I would be totally in favor of option 2. That way have to work for it. Sounds sensible. I like the idea of having to build specific ships to survey (to discover if it's worth it or not) and eventually build a lagrange point.
 

Offline Shuul

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #425 on: August 29, 2019, 10:15:33 AM »
I would like option two only if NPRs will be able to do the same or if player will not get an advantage over NPRs using this system.
Otherwise option one is more attractive I would say.
 

Offline Culise

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #426 on: August 29, 2019, 08:12:28 PM »
I've personally been fond of the idea of stars themselves serving as "Lagrange points" for the purpose of intrasystem jumps.   As the gravitational bodies themselves fairly obviously aren't Lagrangian points, I understand that it likely doesn't even come close to signifying from a semantic standpoint, and what little lore there is on both interstellar and intrasystem jumps likely doesn't support dropping a point right on top of a large gravitational well.   Adding in artificial Lagrangian stabilization for intrasystem jumps does seem like a worthwhile option, and one that's far more extensible to other distant planets.   
 
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Online papent

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #427 on: August 31, 2019, 04:03:53 AM »
I seconded the suggestion of allowing intra-system jumps from star to star it would be a quick and easy solution.

Although on the other hand it wouldn't allow for creating a shortcut like being able to stabilize your own intra-system jump-points would (possibly) allow i.e. stabilize a intra-system point at Planet X/Pluto and another one by Venus to enable shorten travel time to your primary jump chain which is near Mercury.

Maybe both options possible could be used?


I also hate going to Hutton Orbital in Elite Dangerous it's 0.22LY from the Primary and wish they allowed intra-system jumps in that game or being able to choose at which star to enter a system.
 

Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #428 on: August 31, 2019, 05:06:18 AM »
I seconded the suggestion of allowing intra-system jumps from star to star it would be a quick and easy solution.

Although on the other hand it wouldn't allow for creating a shortcut like being able to stabilize your own intra-system jump-points would (possibly) allow i.e. stabilize a intra-system point at Planet X/Pluto and another one by Venus to enable shorten travel time to your primary jump chain which is near Mercury.

The mechanic would allow any planet to have a Lagrange point, even two or three within the same solar system. It would take a long time though for sub-gas giant worlds.
 
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Online papent

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #429 on: August 31, 2019, 05:59:53 AM »
that would be perfect, if overused without enough defense in a system then a potential enemy will be on your colonies doorstep in a heartbeat. it would also be allowing players to have a decision to make between shortening travel times in system/JCS utilization doing downtime versus accidental creation of an invasion highway/increased JCS workload while in a expansion phase.
 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #430 on: September 01, 2019, 12:31:20 AM »
I also really like the idea of being able to create artificial lagrange points.  That sounds like it would turn into a fun infrastructure project sort of thing. 
 

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #431 on: September 01, 2019, 04:32:42 AM »
I also really like the idea of being able to create artificial lagrange points.  That sounds like it would turn into a fun infrastructure project sort of thing.

Absolutely. It would be fun (If a little dangerous... your enemies can use those too!) to be able to make important planets "closer" by building lagrange points in the star systems.

Really hoping Steve will add this one :)
 

Offline TMaekler

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #432 on: September 01, 2019, 07:11:28 AM »
2) Allow stabilisation ships to create new Lagrange points. This would take a varying amount of time depending on the mass of the chosen planet vs the normal minimum mass for the Lagrange point to form. This is my preferred option. I just haven't got around to it yet. You would still need to get a ship to the destination as a long-term project, but that long-term mission would eventually open up the companion system to easier access.

Totally in support of this idea. It’s so „Expanse“  ;D
 

Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #433 on: September 01, 2019, 09:36:22 AM »
I've added the ability to create new Lagrange points

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg116230#msg116230
 

Offline Shuul

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #434 on: September 01, 2019, 11:38:45 AM »
I've added the ability to create new Lagrange points

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg116230#msg116230
Great news! Will NPRs use this mechanic?
Also, is it possible to set the minimum size of a planet for this during game startup? For me personally 0.25 is too small and I would like to have 1.0 as minimum possible.
Thanks!
 

 

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