Author Topic: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates  (Read 5061 times)

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Offline QuakeIV

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2018, 11:00:42 PM »
This brings out a thought, I'm really appreciating the idea of a huge formation of troops I can control as one big unit, instead of having to deal with fifty billion tiny garrison units.
 

Offline Hazard

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2018, 03:14:26 AM »
There is nothing preventing you from shoving 999 500 light personal weapon equipped infantry onto a 4M headquarters unit and call that a guard force.
 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2018, 02:57:13 PM »
I know, its amazing!
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2018, 03:31:40 PM »
There is nothing preventing you from shoving 999 500 light personal weapon equipped infantry onto a 4M headquarters unit and call that a guard force.

And at the opposite extreme, you could create a single squad of space marines for boarding actions :)
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2018, 04:36:56 PM »
If we're allowed to venture away from real world units (while I'm familiar with the basics, I don't really know real world military organization well enough to guess on the actual formations), how about some theorycrafting?

I haven't seen the exact mechanics of bombardment or anti-aircraft weapons yet so I'm leaving those out for now.

Garrison units

Infantry and static both have the highest fortification values, so I feel they're naturals as garrison units. Additionally I feel low armor works well for garrisons; since it's a multiplier to the price, one of the biggest advantages of heavy armor is that it lets you fit more combat power in the same transport tonnage, and you can probably get away with bulkier garrisons than assault units since you have the time for multiple transport runs(or not, if the colony in question has its own ground force training facilities).

Rifle Infantry: Infantry, Light Infantry Armor, Personal Weapons
Size: 5 Armor: 10 HP: 10
AP: 10 Damage: 10  Shots: 1
I'm not a fan of the light personal weapons. From the stats, they seem to only really be practical when you have a tech advantage against other infantry or if you're trying to cram as many bodies as possible in as ablative armor.

Heavy Machinegun Team: Infantry, Light Infantry Armor, Heavy Crew Served Anti-Personnel
Size: 20 Armor: 10 HP: 10
AP: 20 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
Despite the name, it's not really intended as anti-infantry; pound for pound (or rather cost for cost), the rifle infantry is better against anything with Armor 10. The heavier weapon instead works better against either armored infantry or light vehicles. Compared to a Light anti-vehicle it performs much better against infantry and slightly better against light vehicles while only being 25% larger, which I think is a good tradeoff. Against anything bigger than a light vehicle static units are really the only efficient option, anyways.

Heavy Anti-Tank Gun: Static, Light Static Armor, Heavy Anti-Vehicle
Size: 60 Armor: 10 HP: 30
AP: 60 Damage: 60 Shots: 1
Basically just the biggest anti-vehicle gun one can put on a static, for shooting vehicles and heavy vehicles, not to mention hopefully scoring a lucky hit if the attackers have super or ultra heavy tanks. Actually by my math it's still a 1 in 16 chance to kill if it hits an equal tech ultra heavy, which isn't bad considering how much they'll probably cost.

Command Bunker: Static, Heavy Static Armor, Headquarters Size 10,000
Size: 262 Armor: 30 HP: 30
HQ
The only exception to my plans of minimal armor garrison units, since it might save the HQ from an unlucky shot.

Missile Defense Installation: Static, Light Static Armor, CIWS
Size: ?? Armor: 10 HP: 30
CIWS
Just a support unit to help make sure the enemies in orbit don't decide to shortcut the invasion phase by using missiles against your ground forces.

Planetary Defense Laser Bunker: Static, Light Static Armor, STO
Size: ?? Armor: 10 HP: 30
Largest available STO weapon
As above, a weapon to prevent ships from sitting in orbit and bombing the planet. After thinking about it I favor a few big lasers instead of more efficient smaller ones; given enemy ships in orbit can come and go whenever they want, you probably can't plan on sandpapering down armor and will have to rely on the penetrating power of large lasers and shock damage.

Formations:
Planetary Garrison Division
987 Rifle Infantry (4935 size)
150 Heavy Machinegun Teams (3000 size)
30 Heavy Anti-Tank Guns (1800 size)
Command Bunker (262 size)
Total: 9,997
Basically just a conveniently sized package to drop on colonies to defend against enemy ground forces. Lots of machineguns, since as I'll get to later I expect assault units to be heavier on light vehicles than infantry.

Orbital Defense Division
???
Command Bunker (262 size)
Just the same thing with a mix of CIWS and STO units, with numbers depending on their size. A minimum garrison would then be one garrison division and one orbital defense division, with more being added as the colony grows and based on the perceived likelihood of bombardment vs invasion.


Assault Units

Mechanically, hit modifier works sort of like a fortification that doesn't need to build up, so I see it being much more useful for assault units. Static units, with a 1.0 hit modifier, are therefor horrible on the assault (as they should be), whereas light vehicles with .4 are a unit that I think will make excellent "mainline" assault units, probably supported by heavier tanks and possibly infantry (which have decent hit modifiers and fortification levels).

Mobile Combat Suit: Light Vehicle, Light Vehicle Armor, Crew Served Anti-Personnel
Size: 24 Armor: 20 HP: 30
AP: 10 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
While technically infantry has power armor options, I plan on flavoring my light vehicles as in the grey area between power armor and light mechs, sort of like Battletech Elementals. The Mobile Combat Suit's main purpose is to deal with the hordes of infantry I expect will be used for garrisons on a hopefully somewhat cost effective basis.

Heavy Weapon Suit: Light Vehicle, Light Vehicle Armor, Heavy Crew Served Anti-Personnel
Size: 32 Armor: 20 Hp: 30
AP: 20 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
A slightly larger suit that can deal well against either enemy light vehicles or infantry with heavy armor/a tech advantage.

Scout Suit: Light Vehicle, Light Vehicle Armor, Forward Fire Direction
Size: 72 Armor: 20 HP: 30
FFD
I definitely expect my ground units to give support from orbital bombardment, so they'll want some FFD units. I think putting them on a light vehicle is a good combination of low cost and defense thanks to the hit modifier.

Combat Tank: Vehicle, Medium Vehicle Armor, Medium Anti-Vehicle
Size: 50 Armor: 40 HP: 40
AP: 40 Damage: 60 Shots: 1
I'm a bit wary of heavy vehicles against an equal tech foe since their stats line up so perfectly against the heavy anti-vehicle gun that will probably be pretty common with static units. That combined with their lower hit modifier means I think medium tanks might be the way to go on assault (at least until you have super/ultra heavy), with heavies maybe being better suited to defense if you want something beefier than garrison infantry. This tank remains pretty durable against most weapons while being a decent threat to even heavy vehicles (about 44% chance of a successful kill on a hit).

Assault Titan: Ultra Heavy Vehicle, Ultra-Heavy Vehicle Armor, 2x Super-Heavy Anti-Vehicle, 2x Crew Served AP
Size: 400 Armor: 120 HP: 240
AP: 90 Damage: 90 Shots: 2
AP: 10 Damage: 10 Shots: 12
Super Heavy and Ultra Heavy units don't seem particularly more effective on the offense, but they are extremely powerful (and expensive) for their transportation size, so that probably makes them a natural for assault units where you only have so much troop transport capability. I admit I picked the guns on this one mostly so the size would add up to an even number.

Command Titan:  Ultra Heavy Vehicle, Ultra-Heavy Vehicle Armor, Headquarters Size 10k, Crew Served AP, Heavy Crew Served AP
Size: 498 Armor: 120 HP: 240
AP: 10 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
AP: 20 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
Replace with Heavy or Super Heavy as necessary, but when the HQ unit is already really big I think it makes sense to put it on the biggest chassis available.

Formations:
Mobile Suit Division
200 Mobile Combat Suits (4800 size)
100 Heavy Weapon Suits (3200 size)
24 Combat Tanks (1200 size)
4 Scout Suits (288 size)
Command Titan (498 size)
Total: 9,986 size
What I expect to use as a basic assault unit. It has a definite focus on killing infantry and static, but that's what I expect most low cost garrisons to be. I figure since if I'm invading a planet I probably have a fleet in orbit they probably don't need STO support, either.

Heavy Assault Division
250 Mobile Combat Suits (6000 size)
8 Assault Titans (3200 size)
4 Scout Suits (288 size)
Command Titan (498 size)
Total: 9,986 size
A more expensive assault unit using the ultra-heavy tanks. Also more mobile combat suits to provide cover, since as armored as they are I think even ultra-heavy vehicles will go down fast if everything targets them.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:59:37 PM by Bremen »
 

Offline Deutschbag

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2018, 11:32:11 PM »
I wonder if it might be possible for Steve to release the ground-unit creator as a standalone app? Or for someone to create one and put one online? I could probably do the latter, given some time, if there's interest.

Wouldn't have much actual utility, perhaps, but it might be fun to play around with :)
 

Offline Panopticon

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2018, 01:28:42 AM »
Come to think of it, all the various unit design systems could be fun standalone apps.
 
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Offline Viridia

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2018, 09:54:14 AM »
Come to think of it, all the various unit design systems could be fun standalone apps.

This is something I personally would love. The ship design is one of my favourite aspects, and if it could be used as a standalone app, I'd happily design vessels I use in my Nationstates account through it, because it covers so much.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2018, 12:41:53 PM »
Conventional tech is something you will leave behind as fast as possible even on a Conventional start there's really no point to it.
I disagree. One reason to move away from Conventional tech ASAP is that there is little reason to stick to it. However, with multiple player races starting on Earth, each modelled after a real nation or power bloc, little granularity would be useful. Yes, it would be a very niche case, but if it is simple and quick for Steve to add in, then yes please, it would satisfy me and others who exclusive do Conventional starts and focus on early tech stuff as much as possible.
 
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Offline Father Tim

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2018, 01:00:38 PM »
Something as simple as a repeatable, stacking "+20% to Conventional Armour/Ground Unit Strength" tech line -- like Empire Economy has now -- would make me happy.
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2018, 03:19:50 PM »
Something as simple as a repeatable, stacking "+20% to Conventional Armour/Ground Unit Strength" tech line -- like Empire Economy has now -- would make me happy.

You mean for non-TNE ground units? Because as I understand it armor and weapon techs are already going to benefit ground units.
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2018, 12:03:20 AM »
Yes, for Conventional non-TNE ground forces.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2018, 02:57:09 AM »
Added Germany and Russia to the earlier list.

If someone wants to add more countries, feel free to use the examples on how to do it. Would be really useful to get countries like China and Japan, at least.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 12:40:50 PM by Garfunkel »
 

Offline Wolf359

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2018, 12:55:33 PM »
I think you're putting the horse before the cart.

Determine the missions first.  Design equipment and force structures to be capable and feasible to accomplish those missions given the game's potential environments and circumstances.
 

Offline DIT_grue

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2018, 01:26:08 AM »
I think you're putting the horse before the cart.

Bit of a typo there - you wrote the truth, being the reverse of the common proverb you were trying to use.  ::)

I admit to being bemused that multiple people are acting so determinedly oblivious to Garfunkel's goal. Why is "a multi-faction earth conventional start using the closest available simulation of present day populations and military forces" objectionable enough that it must be ignored, including attempts to hijack the thread for mundane design-in-a-vacuum work instead? Especially since it seems a fairly common project, judging by the fiction forum.

(I mean, I don't care enough to put in this sort of work, but I'd be glad to use such templates if they were easily available.)
 
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