Author Topic: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates  (Read 5062 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2018, 04:38:05 AM »
Cross posted from Changes Log

Conventional Armour

The new ground combat rules provide the opportunity to simulate current ground forces, such as tanks, artillery, etc. However, the single conventional armour tech does not provide any granularity to show the different between different generations of armour. Therefore the current Conventional Armour tech is replaced by three new techs. I have also slightly reduced the capability of Duranium Armour and increased the research cost to create a more graduated progression and give conventional forces some chance against the first generation of TN vehicles.

High Density Duranium and above remain the same. Duranium Armour becomes available, regardless of current armour tech, once Trans-Newtonian Technology is researched.

Here are the first six armour techs as they now stand:

 
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2018, 12:16:58 PM »
I've updated the existing 3 country equipment lists with second slot use as well as armour. Suggestions to improve them would be welcome!

Working on Chinese and Japanese lists now, then I'll probably start figuring out formations.

Added Chinese and Japanese vehicles.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 01:12:24 PM by Garfunkel »
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2018, 10:11:02 AM »
Formations - NATO/West

While it would be possible to get into extreme detail with formations, I don't think it serves any purpose. All NATO countries and most Western countries, use roughly similar OOBs and TOEs. Whether a German battalion has two more snipers and one less mortar than an American battalion, is not much of a difference. And I don't think it ruins the immersion of anyone if there are tiny imperfections. As always, if you have more accurate information, do share! I'll make a separate post for Russian/Chinese formations as these are actually quite different. I'll use company as the smallest unit - again, the new ground combat model supports down to individual troopers but I don't have the time or patience to list every possible squad in every modern military.

Note that I am leaving out all HQ functions at Company level. It's probably best to keep using Battalion as the smallest manoeuvre formation. For this example, I'll be using American vehicle names. For British and German units, just replace the vehicle names and you're fine. All "infantry: personal weapons" are in addition to vehicle/gun crews.

Tank Company
14 M1 Abrams
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
2 supply vehicles

Mechanized Rifle Company
14 M2 Bradley IFV
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
81 infantry: personal weapons
2 supply vehicles

Artillery Battery
2 M7 Bradley FIST-V
5 supply vehicles
8 infantry: light bombardment (there are 8 towed 105mm guns, I can't think of a better way to describe them)

for mechanized version, replace i:lb with either M270 MRLS or M109 Paladin, number remains same.

Recon Company
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
1 infantry: light bombardment (this is a 60mm mortar towed by a jeep and its crew)
48 infantry: personal weapons
6 infantry: light personal weapons (snipers and scouts)
1 supply vehicle

Weapons Company
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
2 M2 Bradley IFV
4 M3 Bradley Scout
64 infantry: personal weapons
1 supply vehicle

Engineer Company
10 M1 Assault Breacher (yes, these are only for Armoured Engineer companies but it's best to just use these for all as Construction Equipment cannot be carried by Light Vehicles)
48 infantry: personal weapons
1 supply vehicle

Infantry Company -I think these only exist for Reserve units nowadays.
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
1 infantry: light bombardment
3 infantry: crew-served anti-personnel
3 infantry: light anti-vehicle
90 infantry: personal weapons
1 supply vehicle



This is how US Army organizes itself nowadays and all NATO armies are either doing the same or planning to do the same in near future.

Combined Arms Battalion
2 Mechanized Infantry Companies
2 Tank Companies
2 M4 Bradley Battlefield Command Post
8 supply vehicles

Field Artillery Battalion
3 Artillery Batteries
2 M4 Bradley Battlefield Command Post
15 supply vehicles

Brigade Support Battalion
1 Weapons Company
1 Recon Company
1 Engineer Company
6 supply vehicles



Brigade Combat Team -old Heavy/Light brigades are gone and it makes no sense to differentiate between armoured and Stryker BCTs in Aurora context. So these would be Panzerbrigades in Netherlands/Germany and so on.
3 Combined Arms Battalions
1 Field Artillery Battalion
1 Brigade Support Battalion
This level requires a bigger HQ than the standard shown in vehicles list. I can't really determine what size until game is out.

I won't include generic divisions here because each country handles them differently.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 10:13:25 AM by Garfunkel »
 

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2018, 03:22:17 PM »
Artillery Battery
2 M7 Bradley FIST-V
5 supply vehicles
8 infantry: light bombardment (there are 8 towed 105mm guns, I can't think of a better way to describe them)

Use Static units with Medium Bombardment instead. 105mm artillery is actually pretty hefty and immobile.

Recon Company
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
1 infantry: light bombardment (this is a 60mm mortar towed by a jeep and its crew)
48 infantry: personal weapons
6 infantry: light personal weapons (snipers and scouts)
1 supply vehicle

Light Vehicle based bombardment would probably be more accurate.
Also, snipers tend to use relatively hard hitting weapons, even if they are often single shot semi-automatic guns. While it's understandable you want to model it with Light Personal Weapons, I feel that would be better to conceptually attach to pistols and other small guns that can be fired single handed without issue.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2018, 03:40:14 PM »
If Static units are allowed to move with infantry, then yes that's a sensible change. There is far less of a difference in firepower between 60/81mm mortars and a 105/155mm howitzers.

For the snipers & scouts, I was struggling with that. I choice LPW to make them separate from the regular infantry because they lack the light machine guns and grenade launchers that the regular infantry has to augment their rifles. It doesn't really make much of a difference since it's such a small component, the 6 lads could be folded into the 48 anyway.
 

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2018, 04:01:14 PM »
Although there may not be much of a difference in shell charge between 60 and 81mm mortars and 105mm howitzers, there's a major difference with 155mm howitzers, and the 105mm howitzer has substantially more range than the mortars.

And the 155mm howitzer has greater range still.

You could stick with Static: Light Bombardment to model the 105mm howitzers instead though.

The real deal breaker here is that Light Bombardment units aren't allowed to provide supporting fire off the Front Line, nor can they provide counter battery.



As for the snipers and scouts; they don't have light machine guns and grenade launchers because if they need those something has gone drastically wrong. Their job isn't to do assault, their job is find the enemy, pick off stragglers, pressure the enemy by being a constant hard to find and defend against threat and to call the guys with actual assault weapons (like the rest of the company) to perform the assaults while they make the lives of anybody trying to coordinate the defense short.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2018, 09:20:11 PM »
Oh sorry, I worded that really poorly. I meant that there is a much smaller difference between 60mm and 81mm mortar, and a 105mm and 155mm howitzers than there is between mortars and howitzers. So yes, 8 Static Units with Medium bombardment would suit to depict the 105mm howitzers, if they can move with infantry.

Quote
Their job isn't to do assault, their job is find the enemy, pick off stragglers, pressure the enemy by being a constant hard to find and defend against threat and to call the guys with actual assault weapons (like the rest of the company) to perform the assaults while they make the lives of anybody trying to coordinate the defense short.
Yes, I am fully aware of the real world reasons why infantry and recon companies have snipers in them. Aurora, however, does not model any of that. So the choice is between modeling snipers and scouts separately from regular infantry with LPW or not. I initially chose to have them separate and equipped with LPW because they lack the support weapons that regular infantry have, which I assume are built into the "personal weapons" but not into the "light personal weapons" since two such categories exist. But in the end, it's a really minuscule thing either way and it probably won't hurt anyone's immersion whether they are separate with LPW or folded into the regular infantry with PW.
 

Offline mtm84

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2018, 02:32:36 AM »
If anyone wants some 20th century layouts for fun/role-play value, http://www.niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm has some great information on a variety of countries, though it is a little hard to navigate around.
 
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Offline Person012345

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2018, 02:35:35 AM »
If anyone wants some 20th century layouts for fun/role-play value, http://www.niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm has some great information on a variety of countries, though it is a little hard to navigate around.
Might be useful, I intend to make my next game WWII themed, I don't know how historically accurate I will go though.
 

Offline backstab

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2018, 01:43:22 PM »
60mm mortars aren’t towed by jeeps ... they are normally man portable
Move foward and draw fire
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2018, 03:54:39 PM »
Well, you better tell that to the US Army then, because the official TO&E for a Recon Company assigns a Humvee to the mortar squad.  ;D

But seriously, yes a 60mm mortar is man-portable, just like an 81mm mortar is, and a .50 cal / 12.7mm machine gun is or a SPIKE ATGM or an Igla or many other weapon systems. Man-portable in this context means that you can deploy and transport the weapon short distances by muscle power. It doesn't mean that the weapon is so light that it requires no other transportation methods. Outside of special circumstances, all modern militaries use vehicles for transportation as much as possible. It makes operational mobility far better and saves stamina for actual combat situations.
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2018, 04:16:48 PM »
Well, you better tell that to the US Army then, because the official TO&E for a Recon Company assigns a Humvee to the mortar squad.  ;D

But seriously, yes a 60mm mortar is man-portable, just like an 81mm mortar is, and a .50 cal / 12.7mm machine gun is or a SPIKE ATGM or an Igla or many other weapon systems. Man-portable in this context means that you can deploy and transport the weapon short distances by muscle power. It doesn't mean that the weapon is so light that it requires no other transportation methods. Outside of special circumstances, all modern militaries use vehicles for transportation as much as possible. It makes operational mobility far better and saves stamina for actual combat situations.

I agree... I also think that the new combat model completely abstract things such as trucks or other non armoured means of transportation. I don't think a Static Heavy artillery is bolted to the ground and immovable.

The size and cost of units also include basic transportation... which also goes for tanks and other armoured vehicles. You don't drive tanks to theatres of operations and planets tend to be pretty big places.  ;)
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2018, 04:35:43 PM »
Russian formations -these are valid for the mid-2000s after the big reorganizations that happened in the 1990s. If someone has access to more up-to-date organizations, please share.

Putting in companies later when I find a reliable company level TO&E



Tank Battalion
4 Tank Companies
1 Bumerang

Motor Rifle Battalion
3 Motor Rifle Companies
1 Mortar Battery
1 Bumerang
1 Kurganets-25
1 Pantsir S-1

Artillery Battalion
3 Howitzer Batteries
1 Bumerang
1 SBA-60K2 Bulat
1 Supply vehicle

MLRS Battalion
3 MLRS Batteries
1 Bumerang
1 SBA-60K2 Bulat
1 Supply vehicle

AA Battalion
3 SAM Batteries
1 Bumerang
1 Supply vehicle



Tank Brigade
3 Tank Battalions
1 Motor Rifle Battalion
1 Artillery Battalion
1 MLRS Battalion
1 AA Battalion
1 Recon Company
1 Engineer Company

Motor Rifle Brigade
1 Tank Battalion
3 Motor Rifle Battalions
2 Recon Companies
1 Artillery Battalion
1 MLRS Battalion
1 AA Battalion
1 Engineer Company
 

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2018, 04:52:13 PM »
Just because 60mm mortars get a humvee assigned to the squad handling them doesn't mean the mortar is towed. More likely it's to provide the squad with some extra munition and mobility. After all, the mortar's big and heavy on its own, but the mortar shells themselves appear to start at several kilograms of weight each. A 4 or 5 member mortar squad won't exactly be lugging a lot of munitions around by themselves as a result.

Easier if you can stash, say, 5 dozen in the back of a lightly armoured vehicle while the rest of the squad hauls a dozen or so between them. If they have to carry it all themselves they'd be lucky to have as flak vest and pistols for their own protection because taking a rifle with munition would be too heavy with the shells.
 
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Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2018, 12:33:37 AM »


It's the Israeli knock-off but you get the idea. Especially as these formations are Generic NATO/Western ones. The point is that the vehicle is not armed with the mortar, hence why I'm using infantry: light bombardment instead.



Chinese formations - note that this is what little is know of the new PLAGF brigade model. It seems that both Russians and Chinese are adopting the NATO model, though they are few steps behind.

Tank Company
10 Type 99
2 Supply vehicles

Mechanized Company
10 Type 04
2 Supply vehicles

Artillery Battery
6 Type 05
2 Supply vehicles

SAM Company
6 Type 92
2 Supply vehicles

Putting in other companies when I find reliable TO&E, the above are tentative only



Tank Battalion
3 Tank Companies
1 Type 08

Mechanized Battalion
4 Mechanized Companies
1 Type 08

Artillery Battalion
3 Artillery Batteries
1 Type 08

AA Battalion
3 SAM Companies
1 Type 08



Tank Brigade
4 Tank Battalions
1 Mechanized Battalion
1 Artillery Battalion
1 AA Battalion

Mechanized Brigade
4 Mechanized Battalions
1 Tank Battalion
1 Artillery Battalion
1 AA Battalion

 

 

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