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Offline Gyrfalcon

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BattleTech Units and Templates
« on: November 06, 2018, 05:52:03 AM »
Given that Steve’s test campaign looks to be somewhat BattleTech inspired, and I was planning to have ‘Mechs in any campaign I ran anyway, I figured a post detailing possible conversions from BattleTech to the Aurora C# system would be handy, at least for myself.

There are currently five vehicle types according to the post here by Steve.

Light Vehicles, Vehicles, Heavy Vehicles, Super Heavy Vehicles and Ultra Heavy Vehicles. Since BattleTech shares space with plenty of ground vehicles, we’re not going to make use of all of those for ‘Mechs alone. Let’s divide ‘Mechs between Heavy Vehicles, Super Heavy Vehicles and Ultra Heavy Vehicles.

This leads to a small problem – BattleTech groups ‘Mechs into four weight categories, but there are only three to work with. Luckily, BattleSpace (the part dealing with the fighters in universe) has the same 20-100t range, but groups them into three categories, so we’ll use that system for our ‘Mech conversions.

The Light category is ‘Mech designs from 20-45 tons, using the Heavy Vehicle template.
The Medium category is ‘Mech designs from 50-70 tons, using the Super Heavy Vehicle template.
The Heavy category is ‘Mech designs from 75-100 tons, using the Ultra Heavy Vehicle template.

According to this post, Heavy Vehicles have 2 equipment slots, Super-Heavy vehicles have 3, and Ultra-heavy have 4.

I’ll be focusing on Succession-Wars designs, mostly because it becomes hard to classify ‘Mechs once technologies like Stealth armor, Guardian ECM, Anti-Missile systems, XL engines and such come into play because those are a step beyond the system as it currently stands. While I plan to include most Succesion-Wars variants, I will skip ones where a faction already has access to a model that provides the exact same equipment loadout for that 'Mech for Aurora's purposes. (A simple variant that replaces a machine gun with a flamer, for example.)

(Heavy) Crew-Served Anti-Personnel - represents machine guns and flamers. <5 points of damage is Crew-Served Anti-Personnel, >5 is Heavy Crew-Served Anti-Personnel.
Light/Medium/Heavy/Super-Heavy Anti-Vehicle - represents lasers and PPCs. Small and Medium Lasers are Light by default, can become Medium/Heavy in enough quantity. Large Lasers and PPCs are Medium by default and can become Heavy/Super-Heavy in enough quantity.
Light/Medium/Heavy Bombardment - represents SRMs and LRMs. If possible, these are handled seperately. <11 damage is represented by Light Bombardment. 11-20 is represented by Medium Bombardment. 21+ is represented by Heavy Bombardment.
Light/Medium/Heavy Autocannons - represents ballistic weapons (Autocannons and Gauss Rifles). AC/2 and AC/5 are represented by Light Autocannons, AC/10 by Medium, and AC/20 and Gauss Rifles are represented by Heavy Autocannons.

Light 'Mechs
NameModelTonnageTypeSlot 1Slot 2Slot 3Slot 4UsageNotes
LocustLCT-1V20Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleGeneral1x Mlaser, 2x Machine Gun
LocustLCT-1E20Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleLiao2x Mlaser, 2x Slaser
LocustLCT-1M20Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleDavion1x Mlaser, 2x LRM-5
FleaFLE-420Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelMedium Anti-VehicleMarik1x Flamer, 2x Slaser, 1x Llaser
FleaFLE-1520Heavy VehicleHeavy Crew-Served Anti-PersonnelMedium Anti-VehicleMarik1x Flamer, 2x Slaser, 2x Mlaser, 2x Machine Gun
HornetHNT-15120Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleDavion1x LRM-5, 1x Mlaser, 1x Slaser
MercuryMCY-9820Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleComStar2x Mlaser, 2x Slaser
StingerSTG-3R20Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleGeneral1x Mlaser, 2x Machine Gun
StingerSTG-3G20Heavy VehicleLight Anti-VehicleGeneral2x Mlaser
ThornTHE-S20Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleKurita, ComStar1x LRM-5, 2x  Mlaser
WaspWSP-1A20Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleGeneral1x SRM-2, 1x Mlaser
WaspWSP-1D20Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleDavion1x Flamer, 2x Slaser, 1x Mlaser
WaspWSP-1K20Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleKurita1x Mlaser, 1x Machine Gun
WaspWSP-1L20Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLiao1x SRM-4
CommandoCOM-1C25Heavy VehicleLight AutocannonLight Anti-VehicleSteiner1x AC/2, 1x Mlaser
CommandoCOM-2D25Heavy VehicleMedium BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleSteiner1x Mlaser, 1x SRM-6, 1x SRM-4
MongooseMON-6725Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleKurita3x Mlaser, 1x Slaser
FalconFLC-4N30Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelMedium Anti-VehicleSteiner1x Mlaser, 2x Slaser, 2x Machine Guns
HermesHER-1A30Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleMarik2x Mlaser, 1x Flamer
HermesHER-1B30Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleMarik3x Mlaser
JavelinJVN-10F30Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleDavion4x Mlaser
JavelinJVN-10N30Heavy VehicleMedium BombardmentDavion2x SRM-6
SpiderSDR-5D30Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleDavion1x Mlaser, 1x Flamer
SpiderSDR-5K30Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleKurita1x Mlaser, 1x Flamer
SpiderSDR-5V30Heavy VehicleLight Anti-VehicleKurita2x Mlaser
UrbanMechUM-R6030Heavy VehicleMedium AutocannonLight Anti-VehicleLiao1x AC/10, 1x Slaser
UrbanMechUM-R60L30Heavy VehicleHeavy AutocannonLight Anti-VehicleLiao1x AC/20, 1x Slaser
ValkyrieVLK-QA30Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleDavion1x LRM-10, 1x Mlaser
ValkyrieVLK-QF30Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight BombardmentDavion1x LRM-10, 1x Flamer
FirestarterFS9-H35Heavy VehicleHeavy Crew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleSteiner4x Flamer, 2x Mlaser, 2x Machine Guns
FirestarterFS9-M35Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelMedium Anti-VehicleSteiner2x Mlaser, 2x Slaser, 2x Machine Guns
PantherPNT-9R35Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleKurita1x PPC, 1x SRM-4
JennerJR7-A35Heavy VehicleLight Anti-VehicleKurita1x Large Laser
JennerJR7-D35Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentMedium Anti-VehicleKurita4x Mlaser, 1x SRM-4
ToroTR-A-635Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleTaurian Concordant1x PPC, 2x LRM-5
AssassinASN-2140Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentLight Anti-VehicleMarik1x Mlaser, 1x LRM-5, 1x SRM-2
CicadaCDA-2A40Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleLiao2x Mlaser, 1x Slaser
CicadaCDA-2B40Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleLiao2x Mlaser, 1x Flamer
CicadaCDA-3C40Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight Anti-VehicleLiao1x PPC, 2x Machine Gun
ClintCLNT-1-2R40Heavy VehicleMedium AutocannonLight Anti-VehicleDavion, Liao1x AC/10, 1x Mlaser
ClintCLNT-2-3T40Heavy VehicleLight AutocannonLight Anti-VehicleDavion, Liao1x AC/5, 2x Mlaser
Hermes IIHER-2M40Heavy VehicleHeavy Crew-Served Anti-PersonnelMedium Anti-VehicleMarik3x Mlaser, 1x Flamer, 2x Machine Gun
Hermes IIHER-2S40Heavy VehicleLight AutocannonLight Anti-VehicleMarik1x AC/5, 1x Mlaser, 1x Flamer
Hermes IIIHER-4K40Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleKurita2x Llaser
SentinelSTN-3K40Heavy VehicleLight AutocannonLight BombardmentKurita1x AC/5, 1x SRM-2, 1x Slaser
SentinelSTN-3KA40Heavy VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleLight BombardmentKurita1x Llaser, 1x SRM-2, 1x Slaser
VulcanVL-2T40Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelLight AutocannonSteiner, Marik1x AC/2, 1x Mlaser, 1x Flamer, 1x Machine Gun
VulcanVL-5T40Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelMedium Anti-VehicleDavion4x Mlaser, 1x Flamer, 1x Machine Gun
WhitworthWHT-140Heavy VehicleMedium BombardmentMedium Anti-VehicleKurita3x Mlaser, 2x LRM-10
Icarus IIICR-1S40Heavy VehicleMedium AutocannonMedium Anti-VehicleMarik1x AC/10, 2x Mlaser, 1x Slaser
BlackjackBJ-145Heavy VehicleLight AutocannonMedium Anti-VehicleDavion, Liao2x AC/2, 4x Mlaser
HatchetmanHCT-3F45Heavy VehicleMedium AutocannonLight Anti-VehicleSteiner, Davion1x AC/10, 2x Mlaser, 1x Hatchet
Phoenix HawkPXH-145Heavy VehicleCrew-Served Anti-PersonnelMedium Anti-VehicleGeneral1x Llaser, 2x Mlaser, 2x Machine Guns
VindicatorVND-1R45Heavy VehicleLight BombardmentMedium Anti-VehicleLiao1x LRM-5, 1x PPC, 1x Mlaser, 1x Slaser
WyvernWVE-6N45Heavy VehicleMedium BombardmentMedium Anti-VehicleGeneral1x LRM-10, 1x SRM-6, 1x Llaser, 2x Slaser

Medium 'Mechs
NameModelTonnageTypeSlot 1Slot 2Slot 3Slot 4UsageNotes

Heavy 'Mechs
NameModelTonnageTypeSlot 1Slot 2Slot 3Slot 4UsageNotes
MarauderMAD-3R75Ultra-Heavy VehicleHeavy Anti-VehicleLight Anti-VehicleLight AutocannonGeneral2x PPCs, 2x MLasers, 1x AC/5
MarauderMAD-3D75Ultra-Heavy VehicleHeavy Anti-VehicleLight Anti-VehicleMedium Anti-VehicleDavion2x PPCs, 2x MLasers, 1x LLaser
AtlasAS7-D100Ultra-Heavy VehicleHeavy AutocannonMedium BombardmentMedium Anti-VehicleLight BombardmentKurita, Steiner, Davion4x MLaser, 1x LRM-20, 1x SRM-6, 1x AC/20

Organization Models
Individual Units
Level I - 1 'Mech OR 1 Vehicle OR 28 Infantry OR 6 Battle Armor

Base Organizations
Lance - 4 'Mechs OR 4 Vehicles
Augmented Lance (Liao, 'Mech) - 4 'Mechs + 2 Vehicles OR 2 Squads Battle Armor
Augmented Lance (Liao, Vehicle) - 4 Vehicles + 2 'Mechs OR 4 Vehicles + 4 Squads Battle Armor
Century - 5 'Mechs OR 5 Vehicles
Level II - 6 Level I units

Company Formations
Company - 3 Lances
Augmented Company - 2 Augmented Lances
Company Task Force - 4-6 Lances (18-24 combat units)
Maniple - 2 Centuries

Battalion Formations
Battalion - 3 Companies
Augmented Battalion - 4 Augmented Lances + 1 command Lance
Square Battalion - 4 Companies + 1 command Lance
Cohort - 3 Maniples
Level III - 6 Level II units

Regiment Formations
Regiment - 3-5 Battalions
Augmented Regiment - 3-5 Battalions where 1 Battalion is an Augmented Battalion
Legion - 3-5 Maniples

Larger Formations
Forward ARC (Kurita) - 1 'Mech Regiment, 1 Armor Battalion, 1 Infantry Regiment, 1 Aerospace Wing
Regimental Combat Team (SLDF) - 4 Regiments
Regimental Combat Team (Steiner, Davion) - 1 'Mech Regiment, 3 Armor Regiments, 5 Infantry Regiments, 2 AeroSpace Wings, 1 Artillery Battalion
Light Combat Team (Davion) - 1 'Mech Battalion + 1 'Mech Command Company, 2-3 Battalions Heavy Armor, 2-3 Battalions Light Armor, 1 Artillery Company, 1 Regiment Battle Armor
Level IV (ComStar) - 6 Level III units

Because of the spread-out nature of BattleTech warfare during the later Succesion Wars, while Brigades, Divisions, Corps and Armies may still exist, there is little to no possibility that an entire 'Mech Brigade will be committed to fighting on a world. ComStar does use Divisions, but their size is more in line with two Regiments of mixed forces.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 05:07:57 AM by Gyrfalcon »
 
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Offline Bremen

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 02:14:45 PM »
As I recall from Battletech, vehicles use similar rules except their armor is much more prone to breaching. This lets them fill the important role of targets for the awesome mechs to blow up in massive numbers cheap garrison units. Do you think they'd have a role here, possibly as similar size vehicles but with very low armor levels (thus making them much cheaper but more vulnerable)?

Elementals seem like they might be best represented as light vehicles. Infantry can have powered armor, but light vehicles may better represent the mobility advantages Elementals have over infantry. Might not come up, unless Steve's game ends up with survivors of the war that made it into space coming home :p
 

Offline Black

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 02:33:30 PM »
To simulate Battletech vehicles and mechs it would be nice to have various motive types (hover, tracked, wheeled and walker for mechs). Those could be used to provide bonuses for various planetary terrains. Maybe hover vehicles could have some flanking bonus, but are limited to light and medium type and so on.

For Elementals some sort of jump jets would be nice.
 
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Offline Gyrfalcon

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 07:03:45 AM »
@Bremen

That's generally correct. I was planning to convert them using the Light Vehicle, Vehicle and Heavy Vehicle templates to represent their general lack of flexibility versus BattleMechs and greater vulnerability.

Power Armored Infantry I'd represent with Light Vehicles, perhaps with the unit having equal numbers of infantry with Crew-Served Anti-Personnel weapons and Light Vehicles with Light Anti-Vehicle Weapons to represent the default (Elemental or IS Standard BattleArmor) being equipped with a small laser and a machine gun.

@Black
Agreed, but that's also asking Steve to go a lot farther into the combat system. Right now it simulates combat at the high level. If you start adding various motive types and their affect on combat, it rapidly will balloon what he needs to code and maintain for ground combat.

Updates:
Finished Entries for 20-ton 'Mechs, added more organizational structures (ComStar, Marian Hegemony), adjusted some 'Mech equipment loadouts, and added reasoning behind assignment of equipment.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 07:57:56 AM by Gyrfalcon »
 

Offline Black

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 11:47:21 AM »
@Gyrfalcon

Yeah various motive types should definitely not be a priority now. Maybe in future after C# Aurora release,  Steve will decide to broaden ground force construction or he decides to implement the Titans that were originally planed for version 7.2.

But at the end current implementation of ground troops gives us much better options to implement various combat units than previous version of Aurora so I am quite happy with it.
 

Offline DFDelta

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2018, 02:02:28 AM »
Well, the Steiner classification also has only 3 categories.
00 - 80 tons = Battle Armor
85 - 95 tons = Light 'Mech
100 tons = a proper 'Mech

 ;D
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Offline Gyrfalcon

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2019, 05:08:58 AM »
Updates: Finished Light 'Mech entries, only two more categories to go. Once I'm done, I'll also add a URL to a google sheet that will be more searchable.
 

Offline 83athom

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 04:59:59 PM »
Just a few thoughts about the initial assignments for equipment and such.

Tonnage;
I'd shift your assignments a bit to put the light category at 40t and lower (there are some mechs lighter than 20t, with the only 2 you'd probably use being the Guardian and its one field refit, unless you want to use the medium vehicle category for those), while shifting the "medium" to span 45 to 65 because almost all the 70t mechs are more like assaults than they are like mechs 5 tons lighter. Side note: There are mechs much heavier than 100t. All but one being canonical, but only one of them that fits within your stated timeframe.

Special case weapons;
This is a lot simpler since you've limited yourself to the succession war. However, there will still be 2 rare cases when you're missing equipment; Specifically the Ultra AC/5 and the LB 10-X. Now, these are going to be rare (off the top of my head the only mechs during this era that fielded these were the Cataphract, Wolverine, Rifleman, Marauder II, and Dragon, but there should be a lot more). The LB, for those that aren't familiar, is in essence slightly a lighter AC/10 that fires a flak like slug for combating aerial units, so would be suited to by a AA weapon of the same size as the AC/10. However, it was also designed to be able to fire a special kinetic penetrator that far exceeds the anti vehicle capabilities of the AC while both losing its AA effectiveness and not having the raw damage against soft targets (ACs use a HE type shell in lore as the main round that consists of like 90% of all AC ammo outside special operations, while having specialized munitions like illumination shells, airburst rounds, precision/self-targeting rounds, and a few others of infinitesimal importance). If set like this, it could be seen as another anti vehicle weapon.

The Ultra 5 on the other hand, is basically just a lighter AC/10 that does its damage in 2 separate shots with their own hit chances. Basically just set this as the class directly above whatever you set as the AC/5, or do something else interesting {see below}.

Weapon classes;
I agree with you that the energy weapons should be the AT, and the MGs/SLas are AP. But generaly, I'd say most of the ACs (besides the 2) would be better suited as "bombardment" rather than "autocannon" as that is essentially what they are, BFGs that lob massive HEAP shells of varying sizes (for reference, the "biggest" AC caliber is a 203mm Ultra-20 on the Ebon Jaguar, but different guns in the same 'class' that do the same damage vary wildly). This way you have some leway to add some Ultra ACs, Rotary ACs, etc into your game as autocannons. For the Gauss, I'd say the best pick would be the heaviest anti vehicle gun, as nothing else really matches what it is. SRMs and LRMs are harder to do with what's left, but i'd say stick with 'bombard' for LRMs and 'anti vehicle' for SRMs. Streaks could honestly then be AA.
My suggestion;
(Regular+H) Anti-Personnel: MGs, Small and Small Pulse Lasers.
(L+M) Anti Vehicle: Medium, Medium Pulse, and Large Lasers.
(H) Anti Vehicle: Large Pulse Laser, PPC, and Gauss.
(L) Bombard: AC/5 and LRM10
(M) Bombard: AC/10 and LRM15
(H) Bombard: AC/20 and LRM20
(L) AA: Streaks 2 and 4, and LRM5
(M) AA: Streak 6.
(H) AA: LB 10-X
(L) Autocannon: AC/2
(M) Autocannon: Ultra 5.
(H) Autocannon: erm... I guess Gauss might be a better fit here after all, lol.
Fire Direction: TAG and NARC
Construction: Any piece of industrial equipment or the battlemech being a converted industrial mech, which is surprisingly 'common'.
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Offline Gyrfalcon

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 03:49:51 AM »
Tonnage
I went with the Aerospace assignments for ease of use - I agree that the edge cases of 45t and 70t 'Mechs can be debatable what chassis they should be built on.

There are no canon, functional 'Mechs larger then 100t during the 3rd/4th Succession Wars era, which is what I'm focusing on. The Matar was the only super-heavy design to exist before the post-Jihad era, but it was both non-functional (couldn't walk) and uses LosTech.

Special Case Weapons
Both the Ultra AC/5 and LB 10-X are LosTech until the very end of the Succession Wars. The spread of their usage presaged the technological renaissance by only a few years, thus I feel safe in ignoring them for the purposes of this project since Aurora wouldn't really be able to model a 'Mech-sized shotgun.

Game and fluff-wise, the solid slug of the LB-10X is exactly the same as the solid slug of the AC/10, with no better or worse performance. The AC series gets a comeback in later eras, since LB-X weapons can't use specialty munitions such as armor piercing or semi-guided ammo. That said, early Clan-era the LB-10X is simply a better weapon since it is a ton lighter and a crit space smaller then the AC/10, while being able to fire both regular and cluster ammo.

Weapon Classes
How autocannons work is pretty much up to author discretion. Only a few of the autocannons are given a size canonically, and they're mostly just classified by how much armor they explode off in one go. Whether that's through a 203mm shell, or a 40mm autocannon with such a high rate of fire that it puts out 20 points of damage per round is entirely up to the writer.

The way LRMs and SRMs work in Battletech lends itself to the bombardment role. After hitting the target and determining how many strike, you then either roll for each SRM, or for each cluster of LRMs which then strike the target randomly. ACs, however, roll once and apply their damage to a specific point, done.

I think your system can work as well, its simply a different approach to creating unit designs for Aurora.
 

Offline TCD

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2019, 01:06:36 PM »
Are you sure about your size mapping? In this post (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg105832#msg105832) Steve seems to have vehicles ranging from 40-90t, heavy vehicles from 60-160t and super heavy from 200t+.

That would put all of your light mechs in the light to vehicle size range, and only the heavy mechs in the heavy vehicle class.

I think Steve is more inspired by Warhammer Titans for his super heavy vehicles, and I believe those are just on a different scale entirely.
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2019, 01:19:32 PM »
Are you sure about your size mapping? In this post (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg105832#msg105832) Steve seems to have vehicles ranging from 40-90t, heavy vehicles from 60-160t and super heavy from 200t+.

That would put all of your light mechs in the light to vehicle size range, and only the heavy mechs in the heavy vehicle class.

I think Steve is more inspired by Warhammer Titans for his super heavy vehicles, and I believe those are just on a different scale entirely.

Well, keep in mind by that standard a single trooper with an assault rifle weighs 5 tons. It's drop weight, so probably assumes supplies and support infrastructure, not necessarily what the unit itself weighs.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: BattleTech Units and Templates
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2019, 02:59:56 PM »
And it's the same for all the other classes as well - the sizes are for transporting ground troops and such be taken as guidelines for storytelling, not as absolute mechanics that dictate everything else.
 

 

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