Author Topic: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships  (Read 526 times)

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Offline xenoscepter

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The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« on: March 28, 2019, 12:15:34 AM »
The Ships:
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Lancer-Class Frigate:
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Code: [Select]
Lancer-Class Frigate    5,000 tons     105 Crew     969 BP      TCS 100  TH 300  EM 60
6000 km/s     Armour 4-26     Shields 2-300     Sensors 5/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 13     PPV 6
Maint Life 6.77 Years     MSP 2363    AFR 66%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 89    5YR 1342    Max Repair 450 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 5   

NexType NT1250 600-Rated Advanced Naval Engine (1)    Power 600    Fuel Use 51.67%    Signature 300    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 1,400,000 Litres    Range 97.5 billion km   (188 days at full power)
Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield System (2)   Total Fuel Cost  5 Litres per hour  (120 per day)

N-Gage CK3-30 10cm Infrared Naval Laser (2)    Range 30,000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 1    ROF 5        3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Westinghouse "Nebula" Naval-Grade Beam FCS (1)    Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
Military N1-6P Standard Six Naval Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Westinghouse "Gazer" Naval-Grade Active Sensor System (1)     GPS 1200     Range 13.2m km    Resolution 100
Westinghouse "Sniffer" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [TH] (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Westinghouse "Listener" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [EM] (1)     Sensitivity 5.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5.5m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

- Overview:

 - The Lancer-Class Frigate is the updated version of the Recon-Class Frigate, posted here: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10292.0

 - The Lancer-Class is a bantamweight, highly-mobile, reasonably armoured and moderately armed vessel designed to be a cost-effective warship. To this end it is slabbed in four layers of Composite Armor, shielded by a pair of Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield Systems, and armed with a pair of N-Gage CK3-30 10cm Infrared Naval Lasers. The Lancer-Class is powered by a single NexType NT1250 600-Rated Advanced Naval Engine which can produce power equivalent to an Ion Engine twice it's size with half the Thermal Signature of said engine; it does all this while maintaining a relatively good fuel economy. Almost all of the technology involved in the development of the Lancer-Class is tied up in the ships engines.

 - The Lancer-Class could be described as a very... compact, class of ship. Her entire composition is lean and trim, with very little tonnage wasted. Overall, her engine and it's fuel make up roughly fifty percent of her mass, which is good since speed and range are her key components. She is a rather stealthy little bugger, at 5,000 tons she does tend to show up at some of the most basic sensor resolutions, however her thermal signature is that of a ship roughly half her speed while her EM signature is very low. The Lancer's main asset, however, is her speed: at 6,000 km/s she's incredibly nimble while her four layers of armor and minimal shields offer her a decent defense. A Damage Control System, low fail rate, and copious Maintenance Supplies give the Lancerendurance when paired with it's six months worth of Fuel and Life Support.

 - The Lancer-Class is meant to be a staple ship in my Navy, and would be produced in copious numbers. It does lack in the offensive department, with only a pair of Lasers, but it's speed and robust defenses will let it close in, fire, take a hit or two and get the hell out of Dodge even against opponents with better technology. Her cost is modest as well, sitting at just under a thousand build points. This makes the Lancer a good ship for an Empire with lots of places to protect. Refits would primarily consist of upgrades to the weapons, sensors, FCS, and shields; with Engine and Armor refits being more rare, typically awaiting significant improvements.

- Component List:

- Weapons and Fire Control:

 - 2x N-Gage CK3-30 10cm Infrared Naval Laser
 - 1x Military N1-6P Standard Six Naval Fusion Reactor
 - 1x Westinghouse "Nebula" Naval-Grade Beam FCS

- Defences:

 - 2x Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield Systems
 - 13x Composite Armor
 - 1x Damage Control

- Engines:

 - 1x NexType NT1250 600-Rated Advanced Naval Engine

- Special Functions:

 - 2x Maintenance Storage Bay

- Sensors:

 - 1x Westinghouse "Gazer" Naval-Grade Active Sensor System
 - 1x Westinghouse "Sniffer" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [TH]
 - 1x Westinghouse "Listener" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [EM]

- General:

 - 4x Crew Quarters
 - 5x Fuel Storage - Large
 - 3x Fuel Storage
 - 3x Engineering Spaces
 - 1x Bridge

Lancer II-Class Frigate:
----------------------------


Code: [Select]
Lancer II-Class Frigate    5,000 tons     105 Crew     1109 BP      TCS 100  TH 300  EM 60
6000 km/s     Armour 4-26     Shields 2-300     Sensors 5/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 13     PPV 6
Maint Life 6.52 Years     MSP 2416    AFR 66%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 98    5YR 1470    Max Repair 450 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 5   

NexType NT1250 600-Rated Advanced Naval Engine (1)    Power 600    Fuel Use 51.67%    Signature 300    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 1,400,000 Litres    Range 97.5 billion km   (188 days at full power)
Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield System (2)   Total Fuel Cost  5 Litres per hour  (120 per day)

N-Gage 2VC6 15cm Naval Railgun (1x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 9-6     RM 2    ROF 10        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Westinghouse "Nova" Naval-Grade Beam FCS (1)    Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
Military N1-6P Standard Six Naval Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Westinghouse "Gazer" Naval-Grade Active Sensor System (1)     GPS 1200     Range 13.2m km    Resolution 100
Westinghouse "Sniffer" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [TH] (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Westinghouse "Listener" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [EM] (1)     Sensitivity 5.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5.5m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

- Overview:

 - The Lancer II-Class is a direct upgrade to the Lancer-Class, intended to be carried out shortly after the initial run of Lancers. The only things it changes are the weapons systems and the FCS: swapping out the two N-Gage CK3-30 10cm Infrared Naval Lasers for a single N-Gage 2VC6 15cm Naval Railgun, while the Westinghouse "Nova" Naval-Grade Beam FCS is a direct upgrade over it's predecessor. In all other respects the Lancer II is identical to the ship it is derived from.

- Component List:

- Weapons and Fire Control:

 - 1x N-Gage 2VC6 15cm Naval Railgun
 - 1x Military N1-6P Standard Six Naval Fusion Reactor
 - 1x Westinghouse "Nova" Naval-Grade Beam FCS

- Defences:

 - 2x Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield Systems
 - 13x Composite Armor
 - 1x Damage Control

- Engines:

 - 1x NexType NT1250 600-Rated Advanced Naval Engine

- Special Functions:

 - 2x Maintenance Storage Bay

- Sensors:

 - 1x Westinghouse "Gazer" Naval-Grade Active Sensor System
 - 1x Westinghouse "Sniffer" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [TH]
 - 1x Westinghouse "Listener" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [EM]

- General:

 - 4x Crew Quarters
 - 5x Fuel Storage - Large
 - 3x Fuel Storage
 - 3x Engineering Spaces
 - 1x Bridge



Intrepid-Class Light Cruiser:
----------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Intrepid-Class Light Cruiser    10,000 tons     151 Crew     2002.6 BP      TCS 200  TH 600  EM 90
6000 km/s     Armour 9-41     Shields 3-300     Sensors 5/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 13     PPV 6
Maint Life 1.99 Years     MSP 2375    AFR 266%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 796    5YR 11937    Max Repair 900 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 372   

NexType NT2500 1200-Rated Advanced Naval Engine (1)    Power 1200    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 600    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2,100,000 Litres    Range 109.7 billion km   (211 days at full power)
Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield System (3)   Total Fuel Cost  8 Litres per hour  (180 per day)

Interpid-Class Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 2    Rate of Fire 75
Westinghouse "Comet" Naval-Grade Missile FCS (2)     Range 19.8m km    Resolution 100
Size-2 Placeholder (186)  Speed: ??? km/s   End: ???m    Range: ???m km   WH: ???    Size: 2    TH: ???/???/???

Westinghouse "Gazer" Naval-Grade Active Sensor System (1)     GPS 1200     Range 13.2m km    Resolution 100
Westinghouse "Sniffer" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [TH] (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Westinghouse "Listener" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [EM] (1)     Sensitivity 5.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5.5m km

Compact ECCM-1 (2)         ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

- Overview:

 - The Intrepid-Class Light Crusier is the updated version of the ship of the same name, posted here: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10292.0

 - The Intrepid-Class is a 10,000 Ton vessel with a focus on long-range combat. Eschewing the beam-based armaments of the Lancer, the Intrepid instead mounts six Intrepid-Class Missile Launchers mated to a pair of Westinghouse "Comet" Naval-Grade Missile FCS units, themselves mated to a pair of Compact ECCM-1s. The Intrepid-Class is also well-slabbed with nine layers of armour and shielded by three Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield Systems, further extending the protection afforded by such plating. All this is mounted to a massive NexType NT2500 1200-Rated Advanced Naval Engine which sports all of the capabilities of the NexType NT1250 600-Rated Advanced Naval Engine, but with twice the power... albeit at the cost of twice the weight. In terms of Fuel, Life Support, and Mobility, the Intrepid-Class's capabilities match that of the Lancer, as well as utilizing an identical sensors package. The Intrepid, however is further assisted by it's Compact ECM-1, helping to further widen the ECM gap between her and her opponents. Fire Control is typically split up with one Compact ECCM-1 assigned to each FCS, and each FCS mated to three Intrepid-Class Missile Launchers.

 - While the Lancer and it's upgrade the Lancer II are my staple ships, the Intrepid-Class will be my early-game workhorse. The Intrepid is classified as a Light Cruiser, since I don't consider anything below 15,000 tons to be a proper Cruiser, and as such is very much an early-game ship for me. The Intrepid-Class is designed to work in formation with the Lancer-class Frigate, in a ratio of three Lancers (or Lancer IIs) to one Intrepid. While I consider the Intrepid to be an early-game class on it's own, I fully expect these formations to be effective well-into the mid-game as garrison units. Early game doctrine will see one of these four-ship Task Groups as my 1st BattleGroup, and these formations will serve as my early fleet arm. Towards the mid-game, however, these ships will continue service as Garrison Formations; with one four-ship group assigned per planet. The idea is that the Intrepid would hang back to reinforce the planet's PDCs, or barring that serve as the primary defense alongside it's three Lancer-Class Frigates, while the Lancers themselves would go check out anything weird, serving in a pseudo-scout role.

- Component List:

- Weapons and Fire Control:

 - 6x Interpid-Class Missile Launcher
 - 4x Intrepid-Class Missile Magazine
 - 2x Westinghouse "Comet" Naval-Grade Missile FCS
 - 2x Compact ECM-1

- Defences:

 - 3x Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield Systems
 - 46.5x Composite Armor
 - 1x Compact ECM-1
 - 1x Damage Control

- Engines:

 - 1x NexType NT2500 1200-Rated Advanced Naval Engine

- Special Functions:

 - 2x Maintenance Storage Bay

- Sensors:

 - 1x Westinghouse "Gazer" Naval-Grade Active Sensor System
 - 1x Westinghouse "Sniffer" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [TH]
 - 1x Westinghouse "Listener" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [EM]

- General:

 - 1x Crew Quarters - Tiny
 - 4x Crew Quarters
 - 2x Crew Quarters - Small
 - 2x Fuel Sotrage
 - 8x Fuel Storage - Large
 - 3x Engineering Spaces
 - 1x Bridge


The Engines:
---------------


NexType NT1250 600-Rated Advanced Naval Engine:
----------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Engine Power: 600     Fuel Use Per Hour: 310.02 Litres
Fuel Consumption per Engine Power Hour: 0.517 Litres
Engine Size: 1250 Tons    Engine HTK: 12
Thermal Signature: 300     Exp Chance: 15
Cost: 450    Crew: 37
Materials Required: 450x Gallicite
Military Engine

Development Cost for Project: 4500RP

NexType NT2500 1200-Rated Advanced Naval Engine:
------------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Engine Power: 1200     Fuel Use Per Hour: 413.4 Litres
Fuel Consumption per Engine Power Hour: 0.344 Litres
Engine Size: 2500 Tons    Engine HTK: 25
Thermal Signature: 600     Exp Chance: 15
Cost: 900    Crew: 75
Materials Required: 900x Gallicite
Military Engine

Development Cost for Project: 9000RP


The Sensors:
---------------


Westinghouse "Gazer" Naval-Grade Active Sensor System:
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Active Sensor Strength: 12   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Sensor Size: 50 Tons    Sensor HTK: 1
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 13,200,000 km
Range vs 1000 ton object: 528,000 km
Range vs 250 ton object: 33,000 km
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 70%
Cost: 15    Crew: 2
Materials Required: 15x Uridium

Development Cost for Project: 150RP

Westinghouse "Listener" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [EM]:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
EM Sensitivity: 5.5
Sensor Size: 25 Tons    Sensor HTK: 0
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 70%
Cost: 7    Crew: 1
Materials Required: 7x Uridium

Development Cost for Project: 70RP

Westinghouse "Sniffer" Naval-Grade Passive Sensor System [TH]:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Thermal Sensor Sensitivity: 37
Sensor Size: 25 Tons    Sensor HTK: 0
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 70%
Cost: 46    Crew: 1
Materials Required: 46x Uridium

Development Cost for Project: 460RP

Westinghouse "Comet" Naval-Grade Missile FCS:
------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Active Sensor Strength: 6   Sensitivity Modifier: 110%
Sensor Size: 25 Tons    Sensor HTK: 0
Resolution: 100    Maximum Range vs 5000 ton object (or larger): 19,800,000 km
Range vs 1000 ton object: 792,000 km
Range vs 250 ton object: 49,500 km
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 70%
Cost: 8    Crew: 1
Materials Required: 8x Uridium

Development Cost for Project: 80RP

Westinghouse "Nebula" Naval-Grade Beam FCS:
-----------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
50% Accuracy at Range: 32,000 km     Tracking Speed: 6000 km/s
Size: 100 Tons    HTK: 1    Cost: 29    Crew: 8
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 100%
Materials Required: 29x Uridium

Development Cost for Project: 290RP

Westinghouse "Nova" Naval-Grade Beam FCS:
---------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
50% Accuracy at Range: 32,000 km     Tracking Speed: 25000 km/s
Size: 100 Tons    HTK: 1    Cost: 150    Crew: 8
Chance of destruction by electronic damage: 70%
Materials Required: 150x Uridium

Development Cost for Project: 1500RP

The Weapons:
-----------------


N-Gage CK3-30 10cm Infrared Naval Laser:
------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Damage Output 3     Rate of Fire: 5 seconds     Range Modifier: 1
Max Range 30,000 km     Laser Size: 150 Tons    Laser HTK: 1
Power Requirement: 3    Power Recharge per 5 Secs: 3
Cost: 5    Crew: 9
Materials Required: 1x Duranium  1x Boronide  3x Corundium

Development Cost for Project: 50RP

N-Gage 2VC6 15cm Naval Railgun:
---------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Damage Per Shot (4): 1     Rate of Fire: 5 seconds     Range Modifier: 3
Max Range 30,000 km     Railgun Size: 150 Tons    Railgun HTK: 1
Power Requirement: 3    Power Recharge per 5 Secs: 6
Cost: 31    Crew: 9
Materials Required: 6.2x Duranium  6.2x Boronide  18.6x Neutronium

Development Cost for Project: 1750RP

Intrepid-Class Missile Launcher:
-----------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Maximum Missile Size: 2     Rate of Fire: 75 seconds
Launcher Size: 50 Tons    Launcher HTK: 0
Cost Per Launcher: 7    Crew Per Launcher: 2
Materials Required: 1.75x Duranium  5.25x Tritanium

Development Cost for Project: 70RP

Intrepid-Class Missile Magazine:
-----------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Capacity: 90     Internal Armour: 0.32 HS     Explosion Chance: 30
Magazine Size: 300 Tons    Magazine HTK: 10
Cost: 44.4    Crew: 3
Materials Required: 7.5x Duranium  14.4x Neutronium  22.5x Tritanium

Development Cost for Project: 444RP


The Shields and Power Plant:
----------------------------------


Military Class-One [Alpha] Defensive Shield System:
----------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Shield Strength: 1
Recharge Rate: 1    Recharge Time: 300 seconds
Cost: 4    Crew: 1     Daily Fuel Cost while Active: 60 Litres
Materials Required: 1x Duranium  1.5x Corbomite  1.5x Boronide

Development Cost for Project: 400RP

Military N1-6P Standard Six Naval Fusion Reactor:
-------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]
Power Output: 6     Explosion Chance: 5
Reactor Size: 50 Tons    Reactor HTK: 1
Cost: 18    Crew: 2
Materials Required: 18x Boronide

Development Cost for Project: 180RP


Other Required Technologies:
-----------------------------------


- Compact ECM 1 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Compact ECCM 1 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Electronic Hardening 1

- Magneto-Plasma Drives [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Thermal Reduction %50 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Damage Control

- Fuel Storage (Large)

- Active Grav Strength 12

- EM Strength 11 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Thermal Strength 11 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- 0.25 Reduced Fuel Consumption [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- 1.50x Boosted Engine Power [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Alpha Shields

- Shield Regen. Rate 1

- Composite Armor [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Missile Launcher x0.5 Launcher Weight / 5x Reload Rate [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Missile Launcher Reload 4 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Magazine Feed Efficiency %80 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- 15cm Railgun Caliber [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Railgun Launch Velocity 2 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- 10cm Laser Caliber

- Capacitor 6 [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Beam FCS Range 32,000 km [and it's Prerequisite Techs]

- Beam FCS Tracking Speed 6250 km/s [and it's Prerequisite Techs]
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 11:55:05 AM by xenoscepter »
 

Offline Iranon

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Re: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 05:31:11 AM »
As in the previous version, the propulsion plant is off - more/larger engines with less fuel could increase performance with dramatically better economy. E.g. size-40 at 1.1 power multiplier, 9HS fuel for the Lancers. 1000km/s faster, slightly longer range on the same tonnage and a much more reasonable 450000l of fuel.

The combination of damage control and maintenance storage bays is usually wasteful, unless you know exactly what you are doing I'd recommend just using engineering bays. Your current setup eats into your available mission tonnage, a big problem in tight designs with a large propulsion plant. As far as I can tell, this is a major factor in your ships being undergunned for their size and cost.

While stealth is nice to have, the whole package needs to be stealthy to gain much from it, I probably wouldn't bother with thermal reduction alone. If you care about stealth, I'd put the coarse-grained sensor on a separate ship - those are noisy, and afaik you can't switch off individual sensors.


The Lancer II gains nothing from its fast-tracking fire control, effective tracking speed of non-turreted weapons is limited by ship speed or base BFC speed (6250km/s in your case). Railguns that don't fire every round are not terribly attractive. At your tech, 15cm/C6 laser would be my preferred offensive weapon, 10cm/C3 railgun my preferred defensive weapon. 12cm/C6 railguns are fine dual-purpose weapons and also worth consideration.

I usually don't fit optional components like shields and E(C)CM unless the techs are reasonably developed. Even if I'd like them in principle, I'd rather fit good armour/PD instead of inferior shields, slightly over-engineered fire controls instead of inferior ECCM, possibly engines instead of ECM (which does most in long-ranged beam fights against slower-tracking opponents).

Not something you can change now, but if you researched everything yourself your tech progression is also a little mismatched. Internal Confinement Engines + reactor prerequisites would only cost you 64k. For the same output as a Magneto Plasma Drive, they would use 43% less fuel. That's a better saving than you get from your last 2 fuel efficiency techs that cost 180k, with additional benefits.
 

Offline Cavgunner

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Re: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 11:27:14 AM »
Your missiles seem to be broken.  Did you include a missile engine in the design?

As for the designs, I LOVE the fluff and background.  I love the theory of what you are trying to do.

I just can't justify the end product.  Your ship drives are burning over three times as much fuel per engine hour than they should be, while also hauling around 3 times as much fuel tonnage as they should be.    Yes your ships are fast... but why?  Why do you need such speed?  At your tech level, 3000 m/s or 3500 m/s would be much more viable for your main combat ships.  Those shiny high-power thrusters give the ILLUSION of a fast, deployable ship, but what you end up with is a fast, lightly armed fuel tanker that happens to eat its own fuel.

On the Lancer:
*Too fast
*Too much dead weight invested in fuel tanks (intertwined with the first issue)
*Insufficient armament
*Armor protection will be unable to resist more than a handful of weapon strikes, and will probably not prevent shock damage

The Intrepid has similar problems, with the exception that it has good armor.  What is the purpose of the size 2 missiles?  Size 1 is the standard caliber for anti-missile work. 

Furthermore, unless you have something like 1000 fuel refineries on your homeworld (and the Sorium to use it), I just don't see how an empire at your tech level could support a fleet of ships designed this way.

For the sake of argument, I would sincerely challenge you to try working with .8 power thrusters of similar tonnage.  Yes, such ships will be much slower.  But they will have TEETH.  I think you'll be amazed at how much tonnage you'll open up once you start shedding those excessive fuel tanks.  I hope you don't take this critique negatively because aside from these minor points I really do like what you are doing here,
 

Offline Cavgunner

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Re: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 06:45:02 PM »
In thinking about my last post some more, I want to ask- what tech level are your engines?  I was assuming they were Ions or lower, but then I noticed Magneto-Plasma in your "Required Items" list.  I'm not sure if you mean "required" as in "I don't have it yet" or as in "this is what these ships use."  Can you clarify?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 06:48:56 PM by Cavgunner »
 

Offline Iranon

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Re: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2019, 04:58:25 AM »
Using exactly your tech, here's my attempt for the Lancer, with an eye towards efficiency rather than increased capability. 7 engineering spaces,  one size-50 engine, same sensor suite. If you want the shields, the propulsion plant could be made more compact.

Code: [Select]
Lancer class Frigate    5 000 tons     134 Crew     802.5 BP      TCS 100  TH 300  EM 0
6000 km/s     Armour 4-26     Shields 0-0     Sensors 5/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 15
Maint Life 4.5 Years     MSP 702    AFR 28%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 56    5YR 843    Max Repair 337.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6.8 months    Spare Berths 0   

600 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 600    Fuel Use 6.09%    Signature 300    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 170 000 Litres    Range 100.5 billion km   (193 days at full power)

12cm Railgun V2/C6 (3x4)    Range 40 000km     TS: 6250 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 2    ROF 5        2 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.5 32-6250 (1)    Max Range: 64 000 km   TS: 6250 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (3)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR13-R100 (1)     GPS 1200     Range 13.2m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH0.5-5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
EM Detection Sensor EM0.5-5.5 (1)     Sensitivity 5.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5.5m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

My version of the Intrepid is less capable if cheaper. I also couldn't replicate the magazine with the stated tech. Apart from logistics and propulsion plant, I opted for one FC per tube rather than ECCM - this should increase chances of missiles actually getting through, and the (still small) FCs outrange the search sensor anyway. Not happy with this, but I tried.

Code: [Select]
Intrepid class Cruiser    10 000 tons     172 Crew     1470.4 BP      TCS 200  TH 600  EM 90
6000 km/s     Armour 8-41     Shields 3-300     Sensors 5/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 9     PPV 6
Maint Life 2.5 Years     MSP 827    AFR 88%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 183    5YR 2748    Max Repair 337.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 7.3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 332   

600 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (2)    Power 600    Fuel Use 6.09%    Signature 300    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 350 000 Litres    Range 103.4 billion km   (199 days at full power)
Alpha R300/60 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  8 Litres per hour  (180 per day)

Size 2 Missile Launcher (50% Reduction) (6)    Missile Size 2    Rate of Fire 75
Missile Fire Control FC19-R100 (6)     Range 19.8m km    Resolution 100

Active Search Sensor MR13-R100 (1)     GPS 1200     Range 13.2m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH0.5-5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
EM Detection Sensor EM0.5-5.5 (1)     Sensitivity 5.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5.5m km

« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 05:08:55 AM by Iranon »
 
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Offline xenoscepter

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Re: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2019, 12:28:58 PM »
@CAVGUNNER

Magneto-Plasma Drive Tech is required to build the ships.

Also, the Missiles aren't broken, they're just a Size-2 Placeholder; which means I made a missile of Size-2 to demonstrate the Magazine Capacity of the Intrepid so people looking at this wouldn't have to crunch the numbers.

I haven't designed a Missile for the Intrepid yet, also I use Size-2 Missiles as dual-purpose AMM / ASM; with a focus on throw weight vs. individual effectiveness. I',m looking into Box Launchers on the next re-design.

@IRANON

Thanks for that re-deisgn, it helps a lot! I don't necessarily think it fits in with my vision for the ship, but it has definitely gotten me closer. Also, this was made in a Max Tech Ship Design Sandbox; so the Magazines are probably using the maximum armor tech. When the designs are finally finished, then I will probably use a specific save to tweak them.
 

Offline Cavgunner

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Re: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2019, 10:49:33 PM »
Well, if it's any consolation I have also tried to create 6000 m/s hulls using Magneto-Plasma engines.  Obviously, it certainly is possible, but in practice my ships suffered for it.  In my most recent game I've instead been sticking to around a speed of 4600 to 4800 m/s for the same tech level engines, and it seems to be working much better.

Ymmv of course.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 07:21:24 PM by Cavgunner »
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: The Lancer, Lancer II, and Intrepid Class Ships
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2019, 07:24:05 AM »
I would generally question myself when and why my ships need a certain capability, such as speed/range etc.

A ship that have both high speed and very long range are almost never going to be very efficient in anything else than that so you really need to ask the question when that is a desirable configuration.

My general combat ships rarely end up with a fuel efficiency lower than 30% and often are between 40-60% fuel efficiency and have a range of about 10-20b km range at most. Some long range reconnaissance and raiding ships might exist who have bigger engines with better fuel efficiency and less weapons/defences.

I find it very rare for combat ships to need more range than to basically cross one system and engage in another and get back again. That is where about 15-20b km range usually is enough. That is where the refuelling and rearmament ships can be stationed. Often these ships are actually stationed right next to the system I expect an enemy to be in. Exactly where the supply train is stationed will obviously depend on circumstance and how close I want my ammunition and supplies to be located.

If I ever use more than 30% of the ships total tonnage for engine and fuel I don't consider it to be a worth wile combat design. It is fine for recon and long range raiders or some such but not for ship of the line type duty. The ships above would only be serving in a light combat role for my purposes since the compromise in range you need to do is simply too great to be worth it.

I also agree with Iranon on engine design... anything that are to be long range need a much more efficient engine design since fuel efficiency is very important and fuel is both expensive and more importantly take up huge space on the ship.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 01:34:37 PM by Jorgen_CAB »
 

 

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