Author Topic: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread  (Read 1086 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« on: July 12, 2020, 06:58:11 PM »
Thread for comments on new campaign
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 07:10:49 PM by Steve Walmsley »
 
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Offline Neophyte

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2020, 08:44:45 PM »
Ah, Perfidious Necronia, we meet again!  Thanks for the new campaign!

A more general AI question: from the battle descriptions it seems the AI like to fire its anti-ship missiles in small rapid waves, but us meatbags generally try to set things up so that we fire in synchronized larger (if slower) salvos to overwhelm PD at the far end.  Does the AI not prioritize that?  Is that something that can be changed (in a far future version, obviously) without too much effort or computational impact?  Does it relate to the difficulty setting?

I'm also just wondering how the AI in general decides to design weapons and how it chooses how to use them in battle, but if that's too broad a question for this thread don't worry about it!
 

Online froggiest1982

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2020, 04:01:42 AM »
Ah, Perfidious Necronia, we meet again!  Thanks for the new campaign!

A more general AI question: from the battle descriptions it seems the AI like to fire its anti-ship missiles in small rapid waves, but us meatbags generally try to set things up so that we fire in synchronized larger (if slower) salvos to overwhelm PD at the far end.  Does the AI not prioritize that?  Is that something that can be changed (in a far future version, obviously) without too much effort or computational impact?  Does it relate to the difficulty setting?

I'm also just wondering how the AI in general decides to design weapons and how it chooses how to use them in battle, but if that's too broad a question for this thread don't worry about it!

It may be also related to the AI perslonality. Not sure how far we gotten with that at the end but I remember that Steve wanted to create few different AIs to give NPRs more variety.

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2020, 04:10:05 AM »
Ah, Perfidious Necronia, we meet again!  Thanks for the new campaign!

A more general AI question: from the battle descriptions it seems the AI like to fire its anti-ship missiles in small rapid waves, but us meatbags generally try to set things up so that we fire in synchronized larger (if slower) salvos to overwhelm PD at the far end.  Does the AI not prioritize that?  Is that something that can be changed (in a far future version, obviously) without too much effort or computational impact?  Does it relate to the difficulty setting?

I'm also just wondering how the AI in general decides to design weapons and how it chooses how to use them in battle, but if that's too broad a question for this thread don't worry about it!

The AI should build up a view of the point defence capability of alien ships and from that an estimate of the defences of a given alien force within a small area. That estimate will be refined over time with new information. The AI will also test defences of ships where it doesn't have that information without fully committing in order to improve its intelligence. It will use that information to target appropriately and avoid firing entirely where it would be futile, although there are circumstances where other concerns will override that directive.

During the campaign I found a bug that meant the AI wasn't recording the information correctly therefore assumed ships had zero PD, which led to the small waves of missiles. That should not happen in future reports.
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2020, 04:49:37 AM »
Ah, Perfidious Necronia, we meet again!  Thanks for the new campaign!

A more general AI question: from the battle descriptions it seems the AI like to fire its anti-ship missiles in small rapid waves, but us meatbags generally try to set things up so that we fire in synchronized larger (if slower) salvos to overwhelm PD at the far end.  Does the AI not prioritize that?  Is that something that can be changed (in a far future version, obviously) without too much effort or computational impact?  Does it relate to the difficulty setting?

I'm also just wondering how the AI in general decides to design weapons and how it chooses how to use them in battle, but if that's too broad a question for this thread don't worry about it!

The AI should build up a view of the point defence capability of alien ships and from that an estimate of the defences of a given alien force within a small area. That estimate will be refined over time with new information. The AI will also test defences of ships where it doesn't have that information without fully committing in order to improve its intelligence. It will use that information to target appropriately and avoid firing entirely where it would be futile, although there are circumstances where other concerns will override that directive.

During the campaign I found a bug that meant the AI wasn't recording the information correctly therefore assumed ships had zero PD, which led to the small waves of missiles. That should not happen in future reports.

Will the NPR build missile ships with reduce sized launchers to penetrate strong PD shields? My general view is that at some point standard size launchers become almost useless at roughly the same technology level in the face of strong beam PD. So... will NPR to some degree use reduced size launchers to counter that as well by throwing larger salvos rather than saturation salvos?

If this is not the case I think you should consider some reduced launcher missile template ships for the NPR in the future.
 

Offline Jakalo

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2020, 04:03:29 AM »
No, don't trust the perfidious Tau!

I'm a bit surprised you have met only one NPC given how far you have explored and their head start, but maybe that is due to slower exploration speed.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 08:37:48 AM »
No, don't trust the perfidious Tau!

I'm a bit surprised you have met only one NPC given how far you have explored and their head start, but maybe that is due to slower exploration speed.

It's only five years into the campaign and they I started with the NPRs at 30 - 75 light years, so its not too unlikely.
 

Offline L0ckAndL0ad

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2020, 12:29:35 PM »
I was just searching for Tau-themed WH40K Aurora AAR having read the first entry here, because I'm not a huge Imperium fan but this was still interesting, then I failed to find any, but you still managed to deliver Tau to your AAR :) Wish there were more ways to coordinate allied naval actions, like Federation Fleets in Stellaris or something like that.

Long live diplomacy/politics and powerful navy to enforce it!
 
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Offline vorpal+5

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2020, 03:18:39 AM »
Already this AI is smarter than most mainstream games AIs ...
 

Offline Dutchling

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2020, 07:19:41 PM »
Just binged this all in one read. I really like the WH40K flavour even though I Don't know much about it (I'm in book 8 or so of the Horus Heresy but other than that I know nothing about the WH40K world).

Halfway through reading I planned on asking you how you got such a nice galaxy map without too many branches, but it looks like that was just luck and now your map has turned into a mess. Ah well, at least I'm not the one who has to keep track of everything in this game  :)!

One question though, I think a few times you said your main fleet was passed by missiles intended for another target. It doesn't look like you actually tried to shoot it down (with the main fleet). Why was this exactly? I'm just wondering if this is a gameplay constraint or if there is something else behind it.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: Imperium of Man - Comments Thread
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 07:34:13 AM »
Just binged this all in one read. I really like the WH40K flavour even though I Don't know much about it (I'm in book 8 or so of the Horus Heresy but other than that I know nothing about the WH40K world).

Halfway through reading I planned on asking you how you got such a nice galaxy map without too many branches, but it looks like that was just luck and now your map has turned into a mess. Ah well, at least I'm not the one who has to keep track of everything in this game  :)!

One question though, I think a few times you said your main fleet was passed by missiles intended for another target. It doesn't look like you actually tried to shoot it down (with the main fleet). Why was this exactly? I'm just wondering if this is a gameplay constraint or if there is something else behind it.

Having point defence in Final Fire allows you to shoot missiles during the movement phase in the last few seconds before they attack a ship, but not missiles passing by. You can setup for Area Fire instead, which will attack any missile in range during the combat phase.
 
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