Author Topic: C# Aurora Changes Discussion  (Read 260139 times)

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Offline Kristover

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2655 on: March 26, 2020, 03:59:37 PM »
In order for survey to feel allot slower I think you will have to increase it by say ten times of so. As Steve said...  most of the time the ships is spending moving rather than surveying.

When I start my first serious campaign I will likely crank it up to about x10 and tech cost to about x5 and run multiple factions. I usually feel that technology rush forward a bit too fast and contrary to Steve I like small steps to technology increases. I would not mind that technology had about five times more levels in between the ones we have and then it was about 10 times slower as well. I like a gradual increase in power so differences in tech is not so pronounced, it can sometimes provide very big advantages.
I have no problem with the idea that by the time your battleship get of the dockyard you already have new fresh technology that supersede that ship but the change would not be a huge one. This is pretty much how technology and ships have evolved over most of the modern time.

I don't remember there being a tech cost modifier in VB6.  Will there be a modifier in C#?
 

Offline JustAnotherDude

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2656 on: March 26, 2020, 04:05:36 PM »
There is a race level research speed modifier, if I remember correctly
 

Offline Kristover

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2657 on: March 26, 2020, 04:07:10 PM »
There is a race level research speed modifier, if I remember correctly

Yeah, I just looked it up in the wiki and there is a research speed modifier.
 

Offline froggiest1982

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2658 on: March 26, 2020, 04:40:55 PM »
I just jumped on a VB6 game to gauge how quickly it took to survey and oh boy, did I forget how quickly it went.  Single low-tech survey vessel with low-level officer with survey skill finished Luna in half a day, Mars in 4.5 days.  I plan on reducing survey speed to at least 50%.

Often it isn't the actual survey that is time-consuming, but the distance between planets or survey locations. Luna and Mars are small so relatively quick, but a widely scattered asteroid belt can take a while.

Correct, that is why if you looking at reducing the speed of the survey by 50% what is the difference between having it completed in 2 or 4 days?

So travel to Alpha Centauri 1 month plus survey 7 days or travel to Alpha Centauri 1 month plus 14 days. You do the math.

It's a very good addition but I think you should consider keeping 5% or 10% to really slow it down.

Steve, you should create then an NPR with a peaceful exploration mind focused on building large survey ships with multiple survey sensors in the attempt to find a new system (Federation of Start Trek kind).

That NPR would be extremely valued ally to share Geological data with and open to the possibility of just have an ally and protect him from aggressors.
 

Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2659 on: March 26, 2020, 06:07:49 PM »
Aurora has generally had a sense to me that when it comes to the capital ships, the tech progression system ensures that by the time your capital ships get launched they are already obsolete, with their successor class with better technology being prepared for construction already.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not necessarily the story you want to tell.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2660 on: March 26, 2020, 06:26:32 PM »
Often it isn't the actual survey that is time-consuming, but the distance between planets or survey locations. Luna and Mars are small so relatively quick, but a widely scattered asteroid belt can take a while.

I have rarely found asteroid belts very useful, at least in vb6 Aurora. Asteroid mining ships require very large shipyards and usually shipyard capability is very limited. Of course, I always start with conventional start so I have to BUILD those shipyards.

Personally I won't obsess over asteroid belts. I will survey comets, but I'm more keen on planets and survey asteroid belts when I have free time or when they're relatively quick (close asteroids).

I don't know, it always feels like in VB6 aurora I use mayyybe one system in 10, because there's some systems that are so good that the others are not worth it. Which is why the possibiltiy of slowing down survey appeals to me, also in order to really slow down jump points survey.

Basically, if I cannot survey that fast, I'm more encouraged to work with the systems I have close by instead of choosing the perfect system 5 jumps from home. Seems interesting to me.

In C# you can build asteroid mining space stations using construction factories.
 
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Offline Kelewan

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2661 on: March 27, 2020, 04:50:44 AM »
Quote from: Steve Walmsley

The game details window has an option to change survey speed in the game. 100 is the normal rate. For example, if survey speed is changed to 50, all surveys will take twice as long, whereas if survey speed is changed to 125, surveys will happen 20% faster.


Setting the value to 125 I would have expected it to be 25% faster. Is this a Typo?
 

Dira2

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2662 on: March 27, 2020, 05:04:52 AM »
Quote from: Kelewan link=topic=8497. msg120016#msg120016 date=1585302644
Setting the value to 125 I would have expected it to be 25% faster.  Is this a Typo?
You get 25% more progress in the same amount of time, but that doesn't mean, that you are 25% faster.
If you need 500 points to survey and get 100 points per tick, you need 5 ticks.
If you get 125 points per tick, you need 4 ticks for 500 points, which is 20% faster than the original 5 ticks. 
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2663 on: March 27, 2020, 07:56:36 AM »
Quote from: Kelewan link=topic=8497. msg120016#msg120016 date=1585302644
Setting the value to 125 I would have expected it to be 25% faster.  Is this a Typo?
You get 25% more progress in the same amount of time, but that doesn't mean, that you are 25% faster.
If you need 500 points to survey and get 100 points per tick, you need 5 ticks.
If you get 125 points per tick, you need 4 ticks for 500 points, which is 20% faster than the original 5 ticks.

If something is "100% faster" does this mean progress is gained:
A.) Twice as fast
B.) Is instant

As far as I understand it means A, since if I'm in a car or a train that is 100% faster I don't teleport to my destination.

Your and Steves interpretation would be B Which I don't think makes sense, although I'm not a native English speaker.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 07:59:23 AM by alex_brunius »
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2664 on: March 27, 2020, 08:11:35 AM »
Quote from: Kelewan link=topic=8497. msg120016#msg120016 date=1585302644
Setting the value to 125 I would have expected it to be 25% faster.  Is this a Typo?
You get 25% more progress in the same amount of time, but that doesn't mean, that you are 25% faster.
If you need 500 points to survey and get 100 points per tick, you need 5 ticks.
If you get 125 points per tick, you need 4 ticks for 500 points, which is 20% faster than the original 5 ticks.

If something is "100% faster" does this mean progress is gained:
A.) Twice as fast
B.) Is instant

As far as I understand it means A, since if I'm in a car or a train that is 100% faster I don't teleport to my destination.

Your and Steves interpretation would be B Which I don't think makes sense, although I'm not a native English speaker.

No, we are saying A.

As stated in the original post, with 25% more survey points, progress is 20% faster (completed in 80% of normal time). Therefore with 100% more survey points, progress is 50% faster (completed in half the time).
 

Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2665 on: March 27, 2020, 09:16:00 AM »
No, we are saying A.

As stated in the original post, with 25% more survey points, progress is 20% faster (completed in 80% of normal time). Therefore with 100% more survey points, progress is 50% faster (completed in half the time).

No it's not.

If speed for a given action is (x), if it moves 50% faster it moves at a speed of 1.5(x), and will complete in 2/3rd of the time compared to the same action moving at speed (x).

That the action completes within 2/3rd of the time when the points per unit of time accrue at twice the rate for the same action at speed (x) implies a non-linear relation between the speed of point accrual and the speed of completion of the action.


Instead, with 100% more survey points per unit of time, progress per unit of time is also 100% greater, and moves at twice the speed of normal. This means that the time it takes to complete the survey is half of normal.

A factor that would allow instant completion of surveys would be infinitely large, although I'm sure that there's a multiplier value where a survey missile can survey anything within a single 5 second pulse, at which point larger values are no longer relevant because the game won't implement orders without running the code and the code isn't run without pressing the next turn button.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2666 on: March 27, 2020, 10:52:35 AM »
No, we are saying A.

As stated in the original post, with 25% more survey points, progress is 20% faster (completed in 80% of normal time). Therefore with 100% more survey points, progress is 50% faster (completed in half the time).

Instead, with 100% more survey points per unit of time, progress per unit of time is also 100% greater, and moves at twice the speed of normal. This means that the time it takes to complete the survey is half of normal.


It's semantics - we are saying the same thing. You are defining 'progress' as how many more survey points are generated. I am defining 'progress' as time required to complete the task. I suggest we agree to disagree :)
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2667 on: March 27, 2020, 01:19:07 PM »
Aurora has generally had a sense to me that when it comes to the capital ships, the tech progression system ensures that by the time your capital ships get launched they are already obsolete, with their successor class with better technology being prepared for construction already.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not necessarily the story you want to tell.

In my experience research costs doubling every tier means that the longer you play the further new breakthroughs get spread out. So at early to mid game, yeah, capital ships are frequently obsolete before they finish construction, but later on that ceases to be true since the speed RP is produced doesn't keep pace with the increased costs.
 

Offline xenoscepter

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2668 on: March 27, 2020, 08:03:16 PM »
Does the CIC do anything yet?

EDIT: If not, might I suggest the Tactical Bonus affects Initiative? Perhaps also for the Fleet?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 08:08:12 PM by xenoscepter »
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« Reply #2669 on: March 28, 2020, 05:35:22 AM »
Does the CIC do anything yet?

EDIT: If not, might I suggest the Tactical Bonus affects Initiative? Perhaps also for the Fleet?

CIC allows you to have a tactical officer.
 

 

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