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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by skoormit on April 17, 2024, 09:50:25 AM »
Is there any reason to research Hangar Deck?

The research requires 4000 RP.
The Hangar Deck component has 4x the capacity of the Boat Bay, and has 4x the size, 4x the cost, 4x the crew, and 4x the HTK.
In other words, a Hangar Deck is almost entirely equivalent to 4 Boat Bays.

The only difference is using 4 components at 1 HTK each vs 1 component at 4 HTK.
I guess the latter could provide a terribly slight, terribly situational advantage.
But it hardly seems worth the effort to research.

Am I missing something about it?
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by pedter on April 17, 2024, 05:35:38 AM »
Here is the code:

                    // base temperature
                    sb.BaseTemp = 255 / Math.Pow(sb.OrbitalDistance / Math.Pow(sb.ParentStar.Luminosity, 0.5), 0.5);
                    if (sb.BaseTemp < 4) sb.BaseTemp = 4;

The result is in Kelvin.

I decided to not to add the effects of other stars in the system. I have the necessary formulae, but it would be hard for players to visualise.

Does the real Sol system use hard-coded base temperature values to better match reality in that case or is there something else afoot that's causing real Sol bodies to be ever-so-slightly warmer than they "should" be? When I plotted the hundreds of real Sol bodies, regression analysis spat out 255.3406815 with R2=1.000 (and it was the only system to do so) so I assume there's something exceptional in play.

It's not out of the question that the 4 Kelvin minimum is playing games with the data but Venus wouldn't be presenting the same problem if that was it (and other systems would've been showing something other than 255.000 as well)

I had briefly considered if other stars in a system would add a bit of temperature or not but discovered they did not as I checked them; thank you for saving me that headache :)
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by Steve Walmsley on April 17, 2024, 04:13:48 AM »
Does anyone know the calculation for the current base temperature of a system body?
I suspect it's a simple matter of star brightness and current distance from star.

Prior to eccentric orbits, the base temperature of a body never varied, so I could just use the value of FCT_SystemBody.BaseTemperature.
But that value seems not to vary over time.

I'm good for this question; I had to derive it to match Aurora's model to get my body planner to work the way I wanted it to. It largely follows Pedroig's link and can be simplified even further for the values we have access to:

BaseTemp (K) = SysConst * L^0.25 / AU^0.5

L is the star's brightness measured in solar units; AU is the body's current distance in AU (works with eccentric orbits as a result). The system constant I didn't bother to break down further; it's value appears to be exactly 255 for all systems other than real Sol when plotted. Real Sol uses something between 255.13 and 255.3406815 (I've been too lazy to nail it down precisely) to determine base temperature. Rotation rate, atmosphere, and albedo are all modeled during the surface temperature calculation while the Stefan-Boltzmann constant is baked into the ~255 system constant.

Because the terraforming tab still uses 255 for its math even in Sol, bodies in Sol are slightly warmer than their listed terraformed values. This is most evident with the maximum periapsis temperature when they're located at periapsis. Venus was the first that I caught doing this as its temperature is the highest and least susceptible to hiding the error in rounding; see attached screenshot.

Here is the code:

                    // base temperature
                    sb.BaseTemp = 255 / Math.Pow(sb.OrbitalDistance / Math.Pow(sb.ParentStar.Luminosity, 0.5), 0.5);
                    if (sb.BaseTemp < 4) sb.BaseTemp = 4;

The result is in Kelvin.

I decided to not to add the effects of other stars in the system. I have the necessary formulae, but it would be hard for players to visualise.
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by pedter on April 16, 2024, 11:36:33 PM »
Darn. I thought that the towed ship would be able to fire its engines. Thanks.

I don't know if this (bug?) (exploit?) (intended action?) has been changed since 1.13, but the last time i played Aurora for more than 15 minutes, I made "tuglets" with only a tractor beam and sufficient crew and barracks to operate it, and used them between my actual tugs and the towed object. The mass of the "tuglet" is the only thing that contributes to the slowing of the tug, so they would go at a quite impressive speed.

This is still alive and well in v2.5.1 - the velocity only takes into account the tug's engines, the tug's mass, and the mass of the singular vessel that the tug is directly connected to (ignoring anything further down the tug chain) so having a low-mass tractor pod between the tug and the true tugged target lets the tug perform exceptionally well by ignoring the bulk of the true tugged mass. I try to avoid it if I can but it's available.
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by Steve Zax on April 16, 2024, 10:53:15 PM »
Darn. I thought that the towed ship would be able to fire its engines. Thanks.

I don't know if this (bug?) (exploit?) (intended action?) has been changed since 1.13, but the last time i played Aurora for more than 15 minutes, I made "tuglets" with only a tractor beam and sufficient crew and barracks to operate it, and used them between my actual tugs and the towed object. The mass of the "tuglet" is the only thing that contributes to the slowing of the tug, so they would go at a quite impressive speed.
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by skoormit on April 16, 2024, 04:02:46 PM »

BaseTemp (K) = SysConst * L^0.25 / AU^0.5


That. Is. Beautiful.

A million thanks!
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by pedter on April 16, 2024, 03:45:58 PM »
Does anyone know the calculation for the current base temperature of a system body?
I suspect it's a simple matter of star brightness and current distance from star.

Prior to eccentric orbits, the base temperature of a body never varied, so I could just use the value of FCT_SystemBody.BaseTemperature.
But that value seems not to vary over time.

I'm good for this question; I had to derive it to match Aurora's model to get my body planner to work the way I wanted it to. It largely follows Pedroig's link and can be simplified even further for the values we have access to:

BaseTemp (K) = SysConst * L^0.25 / AU^0.5

L is the star's brightness measured in solar units; AU is the body's current distance in AU (works with eccentric orbits as a result). The system constant I didn't bother to break down further; it's value appears to be exactly 255 for all systems other than real Sol when plotted. Real Sol uses something between 255.13 and 255.3406815 (I've been too lazy to nail it down precisely) to determine base temperature. Rotation rate, atmosphere, and albedo are all modeled during the surface temperature calculation while the Stefan-Boltzmann constant is baked into the ~255 system constant.

Because the terraforming tab still uses 255 for its math even in Sol, bodies in Sol are slightly warmer than their listed terraformed values. This is most evident with the maximum periapsis temperature when they're located at periapsis. Venus was the first that I caught doing this as its temperature is the highest and least susceptible to hiding the error in rounding; see attached screenshot.
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by vorpal+5 on April 16, 2024, 09:20:28 AM »
Darn. I thought that the towed ship would be able to fire its engines. Thanks.
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by nuclearslurpee on April 16, 2024, 08:22:27 AM »
I'm scratching my head as to why my Jump Stabilisation Ship is tracted at a meager 342 km/s. Is there a penalty at some point if the masses of the two ships are vastly different? 
My Tug is 10,000 tons and has a speed of 2400 km/s. My Bïfrost JSS has a base speed of 333 km/s. So what gives? 

There are two important rules here:
  • A ship under tow does not contribute its own engine power to the speed of the fleet.
  • The speed of a tug plus a ship under tow is determined by the tug's engine power and the total mass of both the tug and the towed ship.

Given this, you have a total of 480 engine power on the tug, and a total of 70,000 tons (tug 10,000 + station 60,000) or 1,400 HS. 480 EP / 1,400 HS * 1,000 = 342 km/s, so the numbers check out correctly.
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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by skoormit on April 16, 2024, 08:21:38 AM »
Factors (in real world):

Star Radiation Strength
Distance from Star
Rotation of body
Atmosphere
Albedo
Stefan-Boltzmann Constant

In Aurora, the atmosphere and albedo are not part of the calculation for base temp. They are part of the calculation of surface temp.

I don't think the Stefan-Boltzmann constant is part of Aurora's model.
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