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C# Bug Reports / Re: v2.5.1 Bugs Thread
« Last post by vorpal+5 on Today at 08:02:40 AM »
I can check, but it was more than one year ago and the longest travel time is 4 months. And still, it would not explain the 'freeze' on current AM count when producing an extra 0.2

Attach your DB if you like. I'll send my SQL Raiders to find the missing 0.2 automines.
Thanks, but it's okay. No fuss, I moved past this point. I edited the database to change the 8.8 facilities on Earth to 9, and everything is happily humming along now.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Last post by vorpal+5 on Today at 08:00:50 AM »
And on the contrary (sorta...) entering overhaul will halt the time interval. Is it that important?
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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestions Thread for v2.4.0
« Last post by skoormit on Today at 06:42:34 AM »
The Shore Leave Complete event does not stop auto-turns.
Usually, that is my preference.
Sometimes, though, I am waiting for a ship to complete shore leave before I give further orders.

It would be nice to be able to toggle a checkbox on the fleet orders screen to control if finishing shore leave stops auto-turns.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by alex_brunius on Today at 02:33:12 AM »
3) Dividends replaced by an admin overhead that increases in percentage terms based on the number of ships.
Wouldn't this just leads to more shipping lines instead if larger ones are punished?
(unless you with "number of ships" mean the total number of civilian shipping in the empire)
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by alex_brunius on Today at 02:21:13 AM »
Changing the growth rate/profit alone seems like not a great fix. That just means it will take longer for civilians to get out of hand. Unless you make them grow slower than your empire, in which case they'll stay permanently irrelevant.

So civilian shipping lines need to be limited. This limit needs to be with reference to the size of your empire, else civilians will be too good for small empires and too weak for large empires. The problem, such as it is, is that civilians are an exponential snowball of something for nothing. They do stuff you want, give you money rather than cost anything, and grow based on how awesome they were for you already. I think that instead of capping the "something", you should cap the "for nothing".

I think you already have the tool you need. IIRC colonies produce a finite amount of trade goods, based on their size. With tweaking amounts + profits, this provides a natural cap on the profit that can be made by shipping trade goods.

Cap luxury transport desire the same way--a finite amount desired for a population of a given size.

Cap colonist transport the same way. Maybe some tiny fraction of a colony's population wants to move to a different world (badly enough to pay for it) in a given year. Optionally, let the empire pay to have civilian ships move colonists beyond this limit. A simple checkbox for "subsidize colonist transport" would seem to be good enough.

After reading through the thread I really like the core of this elegant suggestion the most. Almost all other suggestions are in one way or another artificial, hardcapped or manual ways to try to balance civilian shipping which I don't think have the potential to be either as elegant, dynamic or as effective in the long run. This also removes any need of limiting number of shipping lines as when colony demand is the limiting factor 200 lines with 1 ship or 1 line with 200 ships both will provide the same service and the limitation automatically targets total tonnage/time that can be shipped, and if people are exploiting a planet-moon connection then the demand will simply be met very quickly with a very low number of ships.

This suggestion should also require very little changes to code, but mostly theoretical calculations and balance testing.


By scaling the income potential of tradegoods, colonist travel demand and luxury/passenger transports to the size of the colonies there is a built in "cap" to the system of how profitable shipping lines can become. Essentially when they reach the number of ships needed to fill 100% of the demand any addition ships will contribute no more profit (unless you as a player want to pay for additional tasks beyond this).

Another REALLY positive bonus to this is that it ensures that after enough time has come to have your shipping lines be in balance with demand they should be spread out and cover the shipping needs of the empire meaning you have all types of shipping available (and in need of protection from threats) wherever you have colonies, and not just on a few routes with the current "near infinite" demand.


If the issue is that people want to play with multi billion sized population colonies that still could see shipping lines with thousands of ships ofcourse to cover such a large demand, then it could be fairly easy to lower the demand past certain pop levels through diminishing returns (similar to pop growth) to make the shipping line numbers more manageable. There would still be hundreds of ships, but it would make sense to have a large civilian shipping sector  for such massive empires.

Together with a bit better logic to ensure shipping lines deploy the correct size of ships (Small, Regular, Huge) both when building new and when deciding what demand to fill I feel confident this solution would be great.
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C# Bug Reports / Re: v2.5.1 Bugs Thread
« Last post by nuclearslurpee on Yesterday at 10:24:27 PM »
Just had a Stablization Ship fly through to a system with a different flag controlled race with the exclude alian controlled flag ticked on the ship.

This had happned before in this game, but I thought I had made a mistake. Seems this bug is still turning up somehow.

Doesn't help they let Swarm out of the system.

The "Exclude Alien Controlled" toggle only affects autoroute orders, it will not influence standing orders nor will it prevent the player from issuing an order which would send the ship into alien-controlled systems.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Marski on Yesterday at 09:49:48 PM »
Another option is replacing dividends with a percentage maintenance payment, which is modified by an admin overhead that increases as the number of ships increases - effectively limiting the rate at which a shipping line can increase in size.
I vote this
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Froggiest1982 on Yesterday at 08:45:58 PM »
I'm going for the radical idea now, so please just consider it as such. It popped into my mind when Steve started talking about the shipyards.

What if there were a sort of "installation" that determines how much civilian tonnage a race could have? It could be linked to a new planetary installation or an existing one, such as Spaceports.

This could be player-built or "organically" expanded by the colonies, similar to how it's currently done with installations.

I understand it would be hard to code, but it would also imply using population to maintain the civilian sector, as well as resources and building capacity.

That would limit your growth based on:

Available Population
Available Resources
Build Capacity of the Colony

Eventually, a new tech line, similar to wealth expansion for financial centres, could be created to expand the maintenance capacity of the civilian sector, or again, it could tap into the existing tech for military maintenance.

I can foresee all the potential issues, mainly with multiple shipping lines wanting to build a ship as soon as there is room in the maintenance pool, and civilians consuming all our population. However, a similar limitation to the one for colony immigration/emigration might suffice. You could have the civilian sector stabilized or expanded, ensuring that populations are reserved and no new ships or infrastructure are being built.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13558.msg169730#msg169730
Not unlike my suggestion here.

Oh, okay. So, now that I have elaborated on that and merged it with your thoughts, you were recommending having a sort of Civilian HQ to pop up in suitable colonies with a given Admin level, which is expanded by the Civvies themselves, similar to how they would expand the mining complexes, right?

I can see the similarities now. However, I think if we go down this path, we will have to cap the number of companies that can be formed on any given colony, which I thought wasn't something many wanted to pursue. There will also be a problem related to the snowball effect, since even CMC can virtually expand endlessly.

I would say though, that it's intriguing and I can see the value in that, both in flavour and actual implementation, since the CMC already exist and might require only tuning the spawn rules.

Perhaps Civvies Admin could not exceed the Admin level of the Colony? That would keep it in check and in line with actual colony potential?
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by xenoscepter on Yesterday at 07:56:14 PM »
I'm going for the radical idea now, so please just consider it as such. It popped into my mind when Steve started talking about the shipyards.

What if there were a sort of "installation" that determines how much civilian tonnage a race could have? It could be linked to a new planetary installation or an existing one, such as Spaceports.

This could be player-built or "organically" expanded by the colonies, similar to how it's currently done with installations.

I understand it would be hard to code, but it would also imply using population to maintain the civilian sector, as well as resources and building capacity.

That would limit your growth based on:

Available Population
Available Resources
Build Capacity of the Colony

Eventually, a new tech line, similar to wealth expansion for financial centres, could be created to expand the maintenance capacity of the civilian sector, or again, it could tap into the existing tech for military maintenance.

I can foresee all the potential issues, mainly with multiple shipping lines wanting to build a ship as soon as there is room in the maintenance pool, and civilians consuming all our population. However, a similar limitation to the one for colony immigration/emigration might suffice. You could have the civilian sector stabilized or expanded, ensuring that populations are reserved and no new ships or infrastructure are being built.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13558.msg169730#msg169730
Not unlike my suggestion here.
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C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Froggiest1982 on Yesterday at 06:22:22 PM »
I'm going for the radical idea now, so please just consider it as such. It popped into my mind when Steve started talking about the shipyards.

What if there were a sort of "installation" that determines how much civilian tonnage a race could have? It could be linked to a new planetary installation or an existing one, such as Spaceports.

This could be player-built or "organically" expanded by the colonies, similar to how it's currently done with installations.

I understand it would be hard to code, but it would also imply using population to maintain the civilian sector, as well as resources and building capacity.

That would limit your growth based on:

Available Population
Available Resources
Build Capacity of the Colony

Eventually, a new tech line, similar to wealth expansion for financial centres, could be created to expand the maintenance capacity of the civilian sector, or again, it could tap into the existing tech for military maintenance.

I can foresee all the potential issues, mainly with multiple shipping lines wanting to build a ship as soon as there is room in the maintenance pool, and civilians consuming all our population. However, a similar limitation to the one for colony immigration/emigration might suffice. You could have the civilian sector stabilized or expanded, ensuring that populations are reserved and no new ships or infrastructure are being built.
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