Author Topic: Nprs expanding too much?  (Read 5220 times)

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Offline Black

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2021, 02:47:45 AM »
Maybe it isn't stupid to tick the ancient races back on, precursors and swarm are limited to one system anyways.

Just a warning about Swarm, they are not limited to one system, they will survey. In my game, they created whole chain of systems and that may be something you do not want. Only Precursors will stay in their system as they do not have any survey ships.
 

Offline Stormtrooper (OP)

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2021, 03:04:34 AM »
Oh ok, thanks, according to dbs I have two swarms as well, maybe I should check on them and delete all their survey and jump stabilisation ships as well.
 

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2021, 03:13:07 AM »
I'd argue that it's only too fast for aliens, but for my own ships I don't complain, it takes me long enough to explore, let alone find a decent system, anyways. Maybe it's because aliens grow exponentially while I don't because even if I have the capability there's only so much tasks the CPU in my head can handle at once.

How so... the game are not really an RTS... ;)

I think you just build too few survey crafts if that is the case. At 100% survey exploration is extremely quick.

You should be able to multi-task as much as needed to expand as fast as your resources allow you to do.

I could've built more but I don't really need since exploration speed >>>>>>>> expansion and colonisation speed. And the game has so much mirco to do I can't focus on everything at all time, from chosing new worlds to terraform and colonise, setting permanent routes of citizen transport to support growing colonies, designing ships (and designing and researching 23468712346 components needed for this), flying ships and fighting, setting mineral routes, supplying colonies with installations, deciding what dto build, building and designing missiles... Holy smeg it's so much, the CPU in my head handles aurora similarly to the CPU of my laptop, it runs at 100% and can process only so much at a time.

When you get over the fact that 90% of the game is logistics you realise that you need to not get ahead of yourself and plan accordingly. That is why I usually emphasis that the game is about the journey and not the goal. When you pass that insight you can spend hours planning and setting this up carefully and then run the game slowly and adjust as things change and new information is gathered.

You need to have extensive notes outside of the game to remind you of logistical goals, planning colonies, income and production balance and all that. If you are not in such a hurry to reach the next technology or find out what is on the other side of the galaxy you should be able to keep up with expanding and doing all that is necessary.

You know what resources you have at your disposal, you know what resources you can acquire and so you can plan to expand and what you need to expand. In general I find if very bad to go after an NPR unless I have a decent tech advantage over them, which I rarely do as I start at conventional and give the NPR at least a 150-200% bonus head-start in addition to that. The more I need to focus on offensive military operation the less I can focus on expansion and industrialisation of my colonies.

The game have enough automation that you should be able to keep pace with expanding much faster than the NPR do once you get the momentum going. As long as you can secure your Corundium income you can expand as fast as you can allow your population to grow.

No, 90% of game is combat (sadly, would love to see more exploration and discovery of extraterrestial life, both sentient and non-sentient), logistics is something you only spend 90% of your time on, but it doesn't provide a deep gameplay on itself as the worlds are "automated" aka you don't worry about all kinds of industries and serivces needed to keep them going, food, power and related tech etc etc, the only end goal of logistics is to build military forces.

Quote
You need to have extensive notes outside of the game

Well, no thank you, such approach is not for me, I'm not willing to spend a few hours writing stuff down and doing calculations per each hour of actual gameplay just because otherwise I'll be uneffective and something will take me 10 in-game years more. I'd rather waste in-game time than IRL time, this is a game, not a job, I just want to play and not bother with "job-like tasks".

Also:

Quote
The game have enough automation

Good one, a very very very good one. ;D ;D ;D
 
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Offline Droll

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2021, 03:45:19 AM »
You need to have extensive notes outside of the game to remind you of logistical goals, planning colonies, income and production balance and all that.

Yeah no, I want to play the game and not get lost in paperwork thank you very much. Only one of those things is enjoyable.

The game have enough automation

I'm not sure what game your talking about here but it isn't aurora I'm afraid.
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2021, 04:01:03 AM »
I'd argue that it's only too fast for aliens, but for my own ships I don't complain, it takes me long enough to explore, let alone find a decent system, anyways. Maybe it's because aliens grow exponentially while I don't because even if I have the capability there's only so much tasks the CPU in my head can handle at once.

How so... the game are not really an RTS... ;)

I think you just build too few survey crafts if that is the case. At 100% survey exploration is extremely quick.

You should be able to multi-task as much as needed to expand as fast as your resources allow you to do.

I could've built more but I don't really need since exploration speed >>>>>>>> expansion and colonisation speed. And the game has so much mirco to do I can't focus on everything at all time, from chosing new worlds to terraform and colonise, setting permanent routes of citizen transport to support growing colonies, designing ships (and designing and researching 23468712346 components needed for this), flying ships and fighting, setting mineral routes, supplying colonies with installations, deciding what dto build, building and designing missiles... Holy smeg it's so much, the CPU in my head handles aurora similarly to the CPU of my laptop, it runs at 100% and can process only so much at a time.

When you get over the fact that 90% of the game is logistics you realise that you need to not get ahead of yourself and plan accordingly. That is why I usually emphasis that the game is about the journey and not the goal. When you pass that insight you can spend hours planning and setting this up carefully and then run the game slowly and adjust as things change and new information is gathered.

You need to have extensive notes outside of the game to remind you of logistical goals, planning colonies, income and production balance and all that. If you are not in such a hurry to reach the next technology or find out what is on the other side of the galaxy you should be able to keep up with expanding and doing all that is necessary.

You know what resources you have at your disposal, you know what resources you can acquire and so you can plan to expand and what you need to expand. In general I find if very bad to go after an NPR unless I have a decent tech advantage over them, which I rarely do as I start at conventional and give the NPR at least a 150-200% bonus head-start in addition to that. The more I need to focus on offensive military operation the less I can focus on expansion and industrialisation of my colonies.

The game have enough automation that you should be able to keep pace with expanding much faster than the NPR do once you get the momentum going. As long as you can secure your Corundium income you can expand as fast as you can allow your population to grow.

No, 90% of game is combat (sadly, would love to see more exploration and discovery of extraterrestial life, both sentient and non-sentient), logistics is something you only spend 90% of your time on, but it doesn't provide a deep gameplay on itself as the worlds are "automated" aka you don't worry about all kinds of industries and serivces needed to keep them going, food, power and related tech etc etc, the only end goal of logistics is to build military forces.

Quote
You need to have extensive notes outside of the game

Well, no thank you, such approach is not for me, I'm not willing to spend a few hours writing stuff down and doing calculations per each hour of actual gameplay just because otherwise I'll be uneffective and something will take me 10 in-game years more. I'd rather waste in-game time than IRL time, this is a game, not a job, I just want to play and not bother with "job-like tasks".

Also:

Quote
The game have enough automation

Good one, a very very very good one. ;D ;D ;D

Then we are not playing the same game then... I spend 95% or more time on none combat tasks.

But I think it has more to do what you think is fun... for me planning and logistics is a rather fun part of this game so I spend allot of time to figure those things out and make sure exploration and expansion happens accordingly.

War for me is just an unfortunate necessity and nothing I want to spend resources on unless I must. When I meet a species I generally just contain it and expand in another direction and try to get good relations if possible, if not, I might slowly push them back if there are any good systems I would like to control in the immediate vicinity. This way I don't have to waste huge resources on vast fleets, especially long ranged fleets.

While combat is a fun part of them game I don't make that my priority for the sake if it, that makes little sense to me.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2021, 04:16:04 AM »
You need to have extensive notes outside of the game to remind you of logistical goals, planning colonies, income and production balance and all that.

Yeah no, I want to play the game and not get lost in paperwork thank you very much. Only one of those things is enjoyable.

The game have enough automation

I'm not sure what game your talking about here but it isn't aurora I'm afraid.

I sometime wonder why people play... for the pew, pew alone or what!?!?

The game is so much more than that. ;)

With automation I mean ways to set up your commercial ships to automate mineral and consumption needs all over you colonies. You obviously need to maintain the balance and once in a while make sure enough ships are moving between the different systems. One important thing I have learned is to make as many colonies as self sufficient in terms of production as possible or at the very least star systems. It is OK to make minerals spend time moving in space but not installations. Installations don't produce anything while being transported and take up way more space than minerals.
 

Offline Droll

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2021, 04:31:07 AM »
You need to have extensive notes outside of the game to remind you of logistical goals, planning colonies, income and production balance and all that.

Yeah no, I want to play the game and not get lost in paperwork thank you very much. Only one of those things is enjoyable.

The game have enough automation

I'm not sure what game your talking about here but it isn't aurora I'm afraid.

I sometime wonder why people play... for the pew, pew alone or what!?!?

The game is so much more than that. ;)

With automation I mean ways to set up your commercial ships to automate mineral and consumption needs all over you colonies. You obviously need to maintain the balance and once in a while make sure enough ships are moving between the different systems. One important thing I have learned is to make as many colonies as self sufficient in terms of production as possible or at the very least star systems. It is OK to make minerals spend time moving in space but not installations. Installations don't produce anything while being transported and take up way more space than minerals.

I personally love the fact that it feels like I'm building an empire, similar to why I love distant worlds. Distant worlds manages to simulate this - minerals need to be moved and ships need fuel but it is never a burden on the player and works well and efficiently. In aurora there is rudimentary automation but it needs so much effort to set up and the game doesn't do the math for you in order to set the balance correctly - throwing "pickup failed" errors when you make a mistake

(don't bother making the "commercial game" argument I am aware)

The main difference that makes me enjoy aurora more sometimes is the designer. Ships and ground troops. Unfortunately this means that combat is kind of important to give the system meaning, I want to see how well my designs do and it's not always enough to have battleships sat in orbit looking pretty.

The main "tedious" thing that I do enjoy that most wont is designing naval and ground OOBs. I go down to the company level on the ground and have tons of admin commands for each administrative sector in the empire which no other game lets me do. Even then though, I would love more assistance from the game especially on the ground OOB level that helps save large sub-OOBs for use later in the game.

If I want a game with a primary focus on logistics I'm fairly certain a quick search of games will give me options more robust in that regard than aurora. In fact, one such game would be 4X IMO.
 
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Offline SpaceMarine

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2021, 04:47:49 AM »
Just my two pence, It seems to me some people enjoy to hate the game more than anything, so much complaining from certain individuals.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2021, 04:49:53 AM »
I personally love the fact that it feels like I'm building an empire, similar to why I love distant worlds. Distant worlds manages to simulate this - minerals need to be moved and ships need fuel but it is never a burden on the player and works well and efficiently. In aurora there is rudimentary automation but it needs so much effort to set up and the game doesn't do the math for you in order to set the balance correctly - throwing "pickup failed" errors when you make a mistake

(don't bother making the "commercial game" argument I am aware)

The main difference that makes me enjoy aurora more sometimes is the designer. Ships and ground troops. Unfortunately this means that combat is kind of important to give the system meaning, I want to see how well my designs do and it's not always enough to have battleships sat in orbit looking pretty.

The main "tedious" thing that I do enjoy that most wont is designing naval and ground OOBs. I go down to the company level on the ground and have tons of admin commands for each administrative sector in the empire which no other game lets me do. Even then though, I would love more assistance from the game especially on the ground OOB level that helps save large sub-OOBs for use later in the game.

If I want a game with a primary focus on logistics I'm fairly certain a quick search of games will give me options more robust in that regard than aurora. In fact, one such game would be 4X IMO.

I agree that the game could have a few more ways to help you set up your freighters moving stuff around. Even using civilian contracts are a bit limited as you need to constantly watch them too when you really should not need to. You should be able to set up permanent contracts that make sure a certain umber of installation are moved in a certain amount based on production or just a timer.

Same goes for commercial freighters and pick up and delivery.

While I don't build my main units down to company level (as the commanders don't support it well) I still have smaller formations in some forms to use commanders with a lower command value. But battalion level seem the like most easier way to handle ground formations in Aurora with the occasional company formations here and there.

In any way I agree that if you spend all that time building your fleet and ground forces you want to use them, in my opinion there are ample opportunities to do that through a game to satisfy that need, at least for me.

It still does not change the fact that I spend the vast majority of the game watching my empire grow and planning for it the most time consuming. War often are short an brutal in comparison as there usually are little empire planning during military engagements.

In general I probably think that designing and thinking up ship designs (and ground forces) are more exciting than the actual combat that can often turn out to be anti-climactic. Engagements rarely are even so you either loose big or win big anyway.   :)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 04:52:54 AM by Jorgen_CAB »
 

Offline Droll

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2021, 04:52:42 AM »
Just my two pence, It seems to me some people enjoy to hate the game more than anything, so much complaining from certain individuals.

Do not mistake criticism for complaining and whining.
You literally wrote this reply under a post explaining why I like the game despite everything so I fail to see your contribution to this discussion with this comment.

Am I not allowed to criticize something I enjoy?
 
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Offline SpaceMarine

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2021, 04:54:16 AM »
Just my two pence, It seems to me some people enjoy to hate the game more than anything, so much complaining from certain individuals.

Do not mistake criticism for complaining and whining.
You literally wrote this reply under a post explaining why I like the game despite everything so I fail to see your contribution to this discussion with this comment.

Am I not allowed to criticize something I enjoy?

I didnt mean to direct the comment at you but the original comments made in the thread and other comments that have been made by a certain individual on other occasions.
 

Offline Droll

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2021, 04:56:19 AM »
Just my two pence, It seems to me some people enjoy to hate the game more than anything, so much complaining from certain individuals.

Do not mistake criticism for complaining and whining.
You literally wrote this reply under a post explaining why I like the game despite everything so I fail to see your contribution to this discussion with this comment.

Am I not allowed to criticize something I enjoy?

I didnt mean to direct the comment at you but the original comments made in the thread and other comments that have been made by a certain individual on other occasions.

Oh I think I understand what you mean, when you said "some people" it sounded to me like you were talking about the whole thread in general which is why I was a bit curt
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2021, 04:57:45 AM »
Just my two pence, It seems to me some people enjoy to hate the game more than anything, so much complaining from certain individuals.

Do not mistake criticism for complaining and whining.
You literally wrote this reply under a post explaining why I like the game despite everything so I fail to see your contribution to this discussion with this comment.

Am I not allowed to criticize something I enjoy?

I think most people enjoy the game very much and that is why we are so passionate with wanting it to become even better... I think this is also why Steve is to passionate about this game and I know that he certainly enjoy the criticism he get from us as well, he have stated that many times. As long as we are civil about what the goals are and criticism are somewhat constructive all is good in my book.
 
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Offline SpaceMarine

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2021, 04:58:16 AM »
Just my two pence, It seems to me some people enjoy to hate the game more than anything, so much complaining from certain individuals.

Do not mistake criticism for complaining and whining.
You literally wrote this reply under a post explaining why I like the game despite everything so I fail to see your contribution to this discussion with this comment.

Am I not allowed to criticize something I enjoy?

I didnt mean to direct the comment at you but the original comments made in the thread and other comments that have been made by a certain individual on other occasions.

Oh I think I understand what you mean, when you said "some people" it sounded to me like you were talking about the whole thread in general which is why I was a bit curt

I understand how it can be construed in that way but the reason i was so vague was because I didn't want to call out the person directly as I felt that wouldn't be right but something did need to be said because I will be honest am getting quite sick of reading the same thing over and over but said in the different way.
 
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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Nprs expanding too much?
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2021, 04:59:32 AM »
I didnt mean to direct the comment at you but the original comments made in the thread and other comments that have been made by a certain individual on other occasions.

Yes, I think it might be easier if I wave my hand and say "This is not the game you're looking for" :)
 
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